Template talk:Infobox Alliance/Archive01

Race additions

Add faerie dragon and mountain giants, they are allies of the night elves and sapient, the rest of the allies are not--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:46, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Added. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 02:15, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Do you think we need to specify which ancient are in it or not?--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:48, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Not really, they're mostly all with the night elves. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 23:50, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Yeah i think with some broadening statements work like children of cenarios and ancients--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:53, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Leaders

Hi ! You should put Vereesa Windrunner at the top of the secondary leaders list. Because she's actually Sylvanas's sister and one of the Quel'Thalas' notable leader (as she says Quel'Thalas is still her home). Furthermore, in Ghostlands she has 81 000k hp, more than Vol'jin or Genn Greymane—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lebleuet (talk · contr).

She barely qualifies as a secondary leader as it is, isn't a leader of Quel'thalas at all, and hp level doesn't dictate lore relevance.. so no. Kellykins (talk) 20:11, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

She's on the list... what does it matter her placement on it Lebleuet? Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 20:35, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Why is Malfurion listed as an Alliance leader? Last I checked he was the head of Cenarion Circle, which is no more Alliance-affiliated than Earthen Ring is to Horde. His marriage to Tyrande doesn't change this.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Savreth (talk · contr).

Yes it does. The leader short story was for them both, and it was recently confirmed on Twitter if you need that too.--SWM2448 18:05, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Affiliations

The horde page has Affiliations under there Main Factions, could you put in the main Affiliations for the Alliance ?? i will be more than happy to help out with the Affiliations if u need any insight on who should be in or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ArbiterX122591 (talk · contr).

I think it's a rather pointless section for either faction. Affiliation could mean anything, as in any character with any tie to any faction.. its really not very clear. Kellykins (talk) 20:12, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Somethings not right ..

The whole page seems destroyed like alot red is all over and unable to figure out why, none of the edits seem to show, i was wondering if this happened cause of the server that recenty had happened ? --ArbiterX (talk) 20:23, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

There was a error with the icons missing, the page needs to have a edit(just click edit and save) to reset all the broken icons into the working ones, also don't forget your sig--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:22, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Archbishop Benedictus

Can we remove Benedictus since in lore he's not technically an Alliance leader anymore.  MoneygruberTheGoblinThe richest goblin on Azeroth!(talk contribs) 22:08, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

He still he is, one job does not eliminate the other, right now he's still the archbishop of the church even trough, he's also secretly a traitor--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:31, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

But it's like when Lady Prestor was helping "lead" Stormwind. She may have technically been leading the army but she had darker intentions to destroy it from within the entire time.So actually I suppose he is still a leader, but it's kinda a stretch  MoneygruberTheGoblinThe richest goblin on Azeroth!(talk contribs) 04:20, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

He should stay until he openly betrays the Alliance. While we may know now that he's a double agent, he IS still the leader of the Church of the Holy Light. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:54, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Seeing as he has openly come out as a twilight cultist and players can kill him in game, can he be removed? User:PsychoticNorwegian/Sig 14:10, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Done. --g0urra[T҂C] 14:13, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Jaina Proudmoore is not a secondary leader

Jaina should be listed among the main leaders of the Alliance. She is not a secondary one. She takes a major role in Alliance's affairs and if you have mentionned Gelbin or Velen as being one of them (main leaders I mean) then you should do the same for Jaina, who's ruling the city state of Theramore, is always present during Alliance leaders' meetings, and is a key actor concerning the war against the Horde on Kalimdor. Sure main leaders are traditionaly racial leaders, but I think she is actually an exception Lebleuet (talk) 20:16, 10 September 2011

It's also said that others leaders of other human kingdoms didn't appear due to territorial disputes(likely tol barad)--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:52, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

It's been done this way to as prevent topics such as this... only the main in-game factions will have their leaders marked as main leaders, while everyone else will be marked as secondary. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 02:54, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Faerie dragons

If my memory from Warcraft III serves me, aren't these only beasts and not intelligent beings?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 01:14, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

They prove to be sapient in Hyjal--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:19, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Mordent Evenshade

As leader of the Highborne. Does he justify a place in secondary leaders?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 21:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

YES! I was thinking about it for long. Every leader of a secondary faction should be added: They might have some voice in the Alliance, secondarily. And the Highborne made their return as Mordent their confimed leader.Gabrirt (talk) 00:56, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Jaina

How is Jaina being a secondary leader non-canon? She's leader of Theramore, which is about as much justification if not more than we have for pretty much everyone else in that list, many of whom lead nothing more than small groups of soldiers or individual outposts (or, in the case of Brann or Nobundo, a group that could in fact be considered almost neutral). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:43, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Did you bother to read the edit?

{{RaceIconExt|Jaina}} {{npc||Jaina Proudmoore}}<ref>''[[Alliance Player's Guide]]'', 167</ref><br/>

RPG reference. Non-canon. --g0urra[T҂C] 19:10, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Well the reference might be invalid, but I don't think Jaina being a secondary leader is. She's leader of an Alliance nation and consistently shows up along with all the other Alliance leaders (such as the pre-Cataclysm meeting in Stormwind Keep).

What's Vereesa done recently to lead the Alliance? or Brann? Or Nobundo? Velog Icebellow? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:14, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Vereesa lead elfs in Quel´Thalas against Amani trolls, however it is questionable if it was in name of Alliance or high el. Nobundo can be considered as a leader of broken.

To topic, Jaina is secondary leader. Its both, canon and non-canon.--Mordecay (talk) 19:28, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

RE Vereese etc: did I argue that they are more important than her? No, I didn't.

I'll add her back, but there's no reference for her then. --g0urra[T҂C] 19:42, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

If they're listed as secondary leaders, and Jaina's not, that somewhat implies that they're more important than she is. And while there may not be a reference for Jaina, there are no references for anyone else, either, besides Jes-Tereth. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:46, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

This whole discussion is absurd. Jaina led the all the Alliance we knew of in WC3. She's present at major alliance meetings. The fact she was ever removed disgusts me. Weres the cite for Brann or Velog? Since Brann is more so neutral anyway?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 19:57, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

HUGE DRAMA NOT NECESSARY, if you want to bring up who should be a major leader or not, bring it up on Talk:Alliance. This discussion is closed. --g0urra[T҂C] 20:51, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

What huge drama? I'm just giving my opinion. No need to bite my head off. High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 01:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Depends on the context:

if you consider a major leader the leader of a playable race then this template is right gameplay wise.

if you consider a major leader the leader of a member-state of the faction then this template is wrong lore wise.

Depends if you're going by gameplay or lore.--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:08, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Jaina was never in the Primary Leaders section. She was in Secondary Leaders, where she should be.

In any event, she's back, so I see no point in furthering this discussion unless someone wants to remove her again. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:22, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

It's reasonable to go by gameplay to make less discussion. But secondary is just the opinions of various people. We had a Horde talk about this. Why not Alliance?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 01:16, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

RPG

Could someone delete rpg information, please? (half races, population...)--Mordecay (talk) 14:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Half races can stay. I removed the outdated population. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:24, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Ivar Bloodfang

Ivar Bloodfang should probably be listed as an Alliance leader. As he is packleader for the Bloodfang pack  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 20:37, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Added.Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:47, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 22:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Highborne Leader

Should te leader of the highborne go here?--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:51, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Nah, since they joined Darnassus, their racial leader is Tyrande Whisperwind. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 01:38, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

I think that Mordent is said to be the leader of the Highborne. And they all are under Tyrande, but the group leads Mordent. --Mordecay (talk) 08:44, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Last requests

I was reading over the page again. I believe High Chief Stillpine should be added. Possibly Joseph although his grip of reality is lost.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 05:30, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

What does Joseph lead, exactly, that would make him a secondary leader of the Alliance? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:28, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Joseph is allied to the alliance not part of it.--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:04, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

A faction of the Scarlet Crusade. Also can you cite him as only a ally?  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 20:50, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Either way. My request for Stillpine still stands.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 01:21, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Besides the game mechanics, I'm trying to find a source that says they actually joined the Alliance. If anything, they appear to be allies, but they didn't physically join. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 05:23, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Which one?  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 05:47, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Stillpine of course. Joseph is not part of the Alliance, nor a leader. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:00, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Pandaren

Can we add Pandaren to the main races list, or at least to the 'other races' section? I'm going to assume, as a player controlled race, that they're going to have a major impact on the alliance, more so than many of the other races on the list. Even though MoP hasn't been released, it makes sense to add them to the list for now. User:PsychoticNorwegian/Sig 23:15, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

I suggest we hold that off until the end of Beta or until we have the name of the faction.--Ashbear160 (talk) 11:45, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Aye, until the expansion is released, this box (as well as the Horde one) stays current. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 20:40, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, fair point. I assume we're not doing a repeat of Cata this time. User:PsychoticNorwegian/Sig 22:12, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Mists of Pandaria has been out for a week now, should Aysa and the Tushui Pandaren be added now? Insane Guy of Doom (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

I think so. Also the Jinyu and Hozen too.--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:26, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Why would we add the Jinyu and Hozen? Did they formally join the Alliance, or are they just helping out? This template is long enough already without adding every single race that is even remotely related to the Alliance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:48, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Pearlfin Jinyu are part of the alliance? Forest Hozen with the horde?--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:06, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Triumvirate of the Hand

I think they should be added to the secondary leaders section since the Prophet lessons seems to give them that responsibility.--Ashbear160 (talk) 09:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I may agree with the add. Also, can anyone link the major leaders with the NPC template and to study the possibility of Jalinde Summerdrake be added to the secondary leaders as the leader of the Highvale high elves? Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 22:24, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

No to the NPC template, because this is a list of characters and not NPCs. No to Jalinde, because neither he (she?) nor the Highvale high elves are even remotely notable among the Alliance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:26, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

Now that we are agreeing on the use of the NPC tag in infoboxes, can anyone apply it to Alliance and Horde infoboxes? Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 15:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Can anyone add the Triumvirate? There were no voice against them for almost five years. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 15:03, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion of style: Triumvirate of the Hand. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 15:05, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

I renew my request for the Triumvirate. Can ANYONE ANSWER this time? Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 15:40, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Mists of Pandaria

Please update Jaina's character icon to .(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 03:54, 29 December 2012 (UTC))

We should add the Kirin Tor to this section.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 04:01, 29 December 2012 (UTC))

We should put Dalaran in this category.(Sports72Xtrm (talk) 03:59, 29 December 2012 (UTC))

Done. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 05:37, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Kalecgos

Kalecgos is now labbeled by the UVG as an Alliance member. He should definitely be listed as an Alliance leader, like Malfurion is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Saintroz (talk · contr).

I haven't received my UVG yet.. what is he a leader of? If he's just a member of the kirin tor, then he doesn't belong on the list. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 23:24, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

He is a powerful member of the Kirin Tor, being a former magic aspect. That's enough to put him on the list. Anduin Wrynn doesn't lead anything, yet he's on the list. Same thing can be applied to Broll—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Saintroz (talk · contr).

Anduin Wrynn was acting leader, while Varian was missing... I suppose he can be removed from the list now. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 00:48, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Broll should definitely be removed too. Same for Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth. Jes commanding the Alliance naval forces has never been confirmed nor denied since RPG is non canon. Saintroz (talk · contr).

Jes-Tereth, given her title, commands the naval forces. Her title and scene in the cinematic is confirmation enough. She can stay. Please start signing your comments with ~~~~ Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 01:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Secondary Leaders

I do believe the following characters should definitely be labelled as secondary leaders: Vanndar Stormpike, Master Mathias Shaw, and Elder Lusshan. -Grazzeh November 2, 2013

Added. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 02:24, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. -Grazzeh November 8 2013

Leader ideas

Jaina is now the leader of a major city. She has also been next to Varian at almost all times for the past 3 expansions when the Alliance is being portrayed. It seems like she might be second in command. Since Malfurion can be considered a main leader even though he doesn't have a city and hasn't done much for the Alliance lately, I think Jaina should be listed just below Varian.

Muninn Magellas should maybe be listed as a secondary leader. He was described as the High Explorer of the Explorers Guild, the same title as Brann.

High Sorcerer Andromath if Shaw is added.

General Hammond Clay because we'd probably include Jonathan if he were still alive.

Arechron is the leader of the Kurenai. If the Horde infobox has the Mag'har leaders, maybe the Alliance one should have the counterpart? Arechron is the only Outland faction Alliance/Horde only leader who's not in an infobox.

Duke Reginald Baradin II for essentially the same reason.

And maybe Khadgar will soon have a role that makes him a secondary leader, but he doesn't right now. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 03:01, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Here is how I'd list the secondary leaders:

Anduin Wrynn

Danath Trollbane

Vanndar Stormpike

Kurdran Wildhammer

Vereesa Windrunner

Shandris Feathermoon

Lord Darius Crowley

General Hammond Clay

Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth

Master Mathias Shaw

High Sorcerer Andromath

Broll Bearmantle

Brann Bronzebeard

Muninn Magellas

Nobundo

Ivar Bloodfang

Velog Icebellow

Arechron

Duke Reginald Baradin II

Elder Lusshan

--ShadowShade81413 (talk) 03:10, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

My Race box:

Main Races

Human

Dwarf

Night Elf

Gnome

Draenei

Worgen

Pandaren

Allied Races

Void elf

Lightforged Draenei

Dark iron Dwarf

Kul Tiran Human

Other Races

High elf

Wildhammer Dwarf

Ice Dwarf

Furbolg

jinyu

Gryphon

Hippogryph

Highborne

Broken

Half-Elf

Half-Elves are already part of the alliance so why not add them? Arator is Alliance and so are vereesa's twin sons Giramar and Galadin. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 05skullcrusher (talk · contr).

I'll just quickly go through the list of changes...

• Malfurion and Tyrande lead Darnassus together, its why they're both under main.
• Jaina while a prominent figure is still just a secondary leader.
• Muninn Magellas added.
• Shaw leads the SI:7 while Andromath just seems to be a powerful mage living in Stormwind, he doesn't seem to have any story behind him.
• General Hammond Clay, doesn't really do anything not worth mentioning.
• Arechron added.
• Reginald Baradin II, not sure what happened to him, but isn't around.

-- Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:07, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

But Jaina's also the leader of a capital now (just not in-game). And again, besides Varian, no one else is associated with he Alliance as much. And can we rearrange the secondary leaders into this order?

Anduin Wrynn

Danath Trollbane

Vanndar Stormpike

Kurdran Wildhammer

Vereesa Windrunner

Shandris Feathermoon

Lord Darius Crowley

Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth

Master Mathias Shaw

Broll Bearmantle

Brann Bronzebeard

Muninn Magellas

Nobundo

Ivar Bloodfang

Velog Icebellow

Arechron

Elder Lusshan

--ShadowShade81413 (talk) 02:16, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

The template were redesigned for this exact reason, the only main leaders will be those of the main races. Varian is Stormwind. Jaina is Dalaran. Humans come from Stormwind. As for the secondary list, there's no reason for a reorder. If they're important enough they can be on the list, their position on it really doesn't matter. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:26, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Add Lord Grayson Shadowbreaker (leader of the Alliance Silver Hand), the Triumvirate of the Hand (leaders of a secondary faction of the Alliance, like Grayson Shadowbreaker) and Marcus Johnson (leader of the last remaining force loyal to the Alliance of the nation of Tol Barad) as secondary leaders. Maybe Morgan should be added as well because of the effort of her forces to stablish a nation.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 13:38, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Add Mordent

As the leader of the Highborne, Archmage Mordent Evenshade should be added as a secondary leader.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 16:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Controversy

As Varian is the High King of the Alliance, should he be added as the only main leader, move the others to the secondary leaders and consequently exclude the actual secondary leaders? And do the same with Warchief Vol'jin and other Horde leaders in the Horde Sidebar? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gabrirt (talk · contr).

While I could see the argument for Vol'jin, Varian is pretty explicitly not the leader of the Alliance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:25, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

For the Watchers!

Jarod Shadowsong should be added on the Secondary leaders as the leader of the Watchers. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 18:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Former leaders

Shouldn't Bolvar Fordragon, Turalyon and a few others be added to the list of former leaders? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dajax02 (talk · contr).

I'm not sure where we stand with Turalyon. Just because his missing doesn't make him a former leader. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 00:11, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Minor request

Could someone replace the generic pandaren female icon for Aysa in the infobox with the Aysa icon? -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 16:02, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

Changes

I added some important leaders missing like Thargas, Fandral, Benedictus, and Maraad and organized the list. Also removed Lothar, Terenas, Uther because this list cuts off from the Alliance of Lordaeron.

|label1 = Main leaders |data1 = King Varian Wrynn
Council of Three Hammers
Gelbin Mekkatorque
Tyrande Whisperwind
Malfurion Stormrage
Prophet Velen
Genn Greymane
Aysa Cloudsinger |label2 = Secondary leaders |data2 = Jaina Proudmoore
Anduin Wrynn
Halford Wyrmbane
Danath Trollbane
Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth
Master Mathias Shaw
Brann Bronzebeard
Kurdran Wildhammer
Vanndar Stormpike
Thargas Anvilmar
Muninn Magellas
Vereesa Windrunner
Shandris Feathermoon
Jarod Shadowsong
Broll Bearmantle
Mordent Evenshade
Nobundo
Arechron
Lord Darius Crowley
Ivar Bloodfang
Velog Icebellow
Elder Lusshan

|label3 = Former leaders |data3 = Bolvar Fordragon †
Archbishop Benedictus †
Magni Bronzebeard
Fandral Staghelm †
Vindicator Maraad †

ShadowShade81413 (talk) 20:46, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Why Maraad is a former leader? He was a skilled paladin but, as far as I know, he led no faction within the Alliance, unlike the Triumvirate of the Hand. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 13:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

He was the leader of the Alliance expedition in WoD. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 18:08, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

At the beginning. When the Lunarfall was established, he gave that mantle to the adventurer. --Mordecay (talk) 18:10, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Was still an important position he held to his death, so he was more than just a paladin. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 18:20, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Race adds

I believe that Half-humans should be added on the infobox.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 23:15, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

There is exactly one half-human in lore that isn't a half-elf, and he isn't part of the Alliance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:24, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

This is a lie. Rhonin and Vereesa had twin sons and Arator the Redeemer is part of the Alliance. Also, we can presume that many half-elves, a race present on the infobox, have human parentage. If you believes that the presence of half-elf icons presume, necessarily, that all half-humans are of elf parentage, just don't put them (the icons) into the infobox.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 02:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Like I said, one half-human that isn't a half-elf. We have the half-elf icon in the infobox already. Having a separate half-human icon is useless if there are no known half-humans who aren't half-elves. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:30, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

One thing doesn't exclude another. If, just for example, there is an Half-Elf and Half-Orc who is member of the Alliance it doesn't mean that we should exclude one race in detriment of the another. Half-breeds must have both of their races described, as you couldn't say that one race is more important than another. Maybe this exclusion could be considered racism, even accidental.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 20:56, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Every half-elf is half-human/half-elf. There is literally no example, anywhere, of a half-elf that isn't also half-human. There is also literally no example, anywhere, of a half-elf being CALLED a half-human. For all intents and purposes, the term does not exist in lore outside of the non-canon RPG. Ergo, There is no reason to include half-human as a separate race from half-elf when they are essentially one and the same. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:44, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if they are called or not half-humans but yes what they are. If someone, for the example, call you fat (no offense) it doesn't mean that you can't be bald also. Also, the planets of the Great Dark are not in a state of a endless martial law and I believe that we can presume that the diversity is big enough to have half-breeds not explicitly stated in lore. They are not the same thing, despite can be in intersection. As I said you can't consider one race more important than another. I still believe that the all breeds should be listed.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 22:20, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

In Warcraft, the term "half-elf" is understood to mean "half elf and half human." Your arguments are based entirely on speculation. As I noted, in all of Warcraft there is exactly *ONE* example of a half-human who is not also a half-elf, and he is neither in the Alliance nor called half-human. There are also *NO* examples of half-elves who are not also half-human. Therefore, including both "half-elf" and "half-human" would not only be redundant but also confusing as it would give the false impression of referring to a different subset of individuals and make people wonder who these (non-existent) characters are. We are not adding a superfluous entry to the infobox to satisfy a nonsensical imperative for diversity and political correctness in a fantasy universe. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:37, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

I really want Gryphon and Half-elf added /05skullcrusher

Another request is the add of Wisp on the infobox. They seem to be sapient spirits of fallen night elves and can communicate through thoughts.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 14:50, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Auric of the Sunwell

I believe that being a representative of a whole race (on the Sunwell) makes Auric Sunchaser important enough to be added as a secondary leader.Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 15:41, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Being a representative doesn't make him a leader. It's not even necessarily an official position; that he was the representative for the high elves at the Sunwell does not mean that he is officially their representative always and forever in all things, merely that he was chosen to represent them at that particular time and place. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:32, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure that he is not a permanent representative?Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 22:28, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Doesn't work that way. You'd have to demonstrate that he is--especially in light of the Purge of Dalaran that likely put an end to Silvermoon's good will toward high elves--and moreover that the position has any real leadership role. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:32, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Change in leadership and icons

The Template that shows the faction leaders still needs updating, it still shows King Varian as the main leader and his son as the Secondary leader. Also Anduin's icon needs to be changed to the King Anduin icon instead of his Prince anduin one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by GovernorDerek (talk · contr).

Funny thing is, I was just changing it before I even saw this comment. Come on people, it just happened. We do allow time for people to experience the content before spoilers are shoved in everyone's face. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 00:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Stormshield

Grand Marshal Tremblade should be added on secondary leaders by being the leader of the Alliance on Draenor just as her Horde counterpart should be added on the Horde Infobox. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 01:41, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Tremblade and Volrath should be added, if only because they are currently the only (AFAIK) active Grand Marshals and High Warlords Xporc (talk) 08:13, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Well shit I was wrong, the Horde has several High Warlords. Don't know what to do then. Xporc (talk) 08:19, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

All High Warlords should be added as being high ranking members (such as Cromush), but, even if you don't agree with this, you can consider that they should be added as being the major leaders of their factions on alternate Draenor. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 13:20, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree for High Warlord Volrath and High Warlord Cromush but High Warlord Uro and High Warlord Shoju seem more like joke NPCs Xporc (talk) 16:31, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Shojo is said to be dead, so if someone is going to add him, add to former leaders. I agree to to add Volrath and Cromush but I am not sure if we should take out Uro or no. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 02:02, 11 January 2017 (UTC)

By the way, why no one are adding on the leaders to the template? Isn't the talk finished? Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 20:39, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Coobra! Xporc (talk) 08:14, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Renewing issues

Here no one answered my request about the wisps. Here and here my leadership requests were not answered yet, as well as my renewed request to NPC-tagging the infobox now we have a new agreement to use it in infoboxes and lists. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 16:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

See my response in the other template Talk page; it applies here, too. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:14, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

But you don't agree, at least, in adding the Triumvirate? Both I and Ashbear160 agreed to add it above, in the past. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 19:04, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Okay, but I'm not using three identical male draenei icons. That's just silly. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:37, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

At least for me, this form of representation (with tree same icons) is the closest to complexion, just like the representation of the Council of Three Hammers. I could even call a vote to add it with three icons. And also, you added an wrong "Male" word to the template. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 20:13, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

About the pruning

I'm intending to review the pruning: Brann Bronzebeard is the leader of the Explorers' League, Nobundo is the leader of the Exodar Broken, Arechron is the leader of the Kurenai and Velog Icebellow is said to be the Regent Lord of the Frostborn. All these four are leaders of a faction or group of the Alliance. The others may not be more than important non-leading characters. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 20:30, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

• It looks like High Explorer Muninn Magellas is head of the Explorers' League. If that's wrong, then I'll remove him and put Brann back.
• The Exodar Broken aren't a faction unto themselves.
• The Kurenai and Frostborn are allies of the Alliance, but are not themselves part of the Alliance. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:43, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

I've heard somewhere that Brann and Muninn are co-leaders of the Explorer's League. In Magellas' article says he is the head, High Explorer and patron of the Explorers' League and in Brann's article there is an reference on the infobox leading to a WoW site page that says he is the leader. About the Frostborn, the Alliance Vanguard page states clearly they joined the Alliance and the leader of their counterpart faction in Northrend, Roanauk Icemist, still be considered a leader in the Horde infobox. Nobundo is the character who introduced the shamanism on the Alliance and here says he leads the the draenei shaman brotherhood. I have heard somewhere the word "leader" about Nobundo and the Exodar Broken, indicating the role of leadership of a group. It is written on the Nobundo article: "Velen urged me to take a leadership role amongst the Broken". Do you believe the Exodar Broken are not organized between themselves? About Arechron, he was already removed and readded to the infobox various times, so would be nice if someone has a sure statement if they are full members of the Alliance or not. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 19:23, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

New Pitch

|label1 = Main leaders |data1 = King Anduin Wrynn
Council of Three Hammers
Gelbin Mekkatorque
Tyrande Whisperwind
Malfurion Stormrage
Prophet Velen
Genn Greymane
Aysa Cloudsinger |label2 = Secondary leaders |data2 = Jaina Proudmoore
Halford Wyrmbane
Danath Trollbane
Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth
Master Mathias Shaw
Brann Bronzebeard
Kurdran Wildhammer
Vanndar Stormpike
Thargas Anvilmar
Muninn Magellas
Vereesa Windrunner
Shandris Feathermoon
Jarod Shadowsong
Broll Bearmantle
Mordent Evenshade
Triumvirate of the Hand
Nobundo
Arechron
Lord Darius Crowley
Ivar Bloodfang
Velog Icebellow
Elder Lusshan
Julianne Tremblade

|label3 = Former leaders |data3 = King Varian Wrynn ^†
Bolvar Fordragon ^†
Archbishop Benedictus ^†
Magni Bronzebeard
Fandral Staghelm ^†
Vindicator Maraad ^†

Former leaders are now in the order they would've been alive, Triumvirate paladins are probably more higher among draenei than shaman, and moved Tremblade to bottom because she is the most recent (she and Volrath hardly make the list IMO) --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 18:10, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Khadgar and Maiev should be considered as well since the official WoW website currently classifies them as Alliance. Probably Khadgar above Danath and Maiev above Jarod. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 18:43, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

• Updated NPC and KIA templates. ShadowShade81413 (talk) 08:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

User:Coobra User:Dark T Zeratul User:Gourra User:Sandwichman2448 Can someone please review my proposed changes for the Alliance and Horde templates? --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 19:34, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thargas and Broll are notable Alliance characters, but are not really leaders, unlike the others. I think they shouldn't be here. Otherwise looks good! --Mordecay (talk) 21:18, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thargas seems to have a similar position to Nathanos, being a champion of his faction. Broll organized the druid scouts, a role Malfurion had, and represented the night elves in Tide of War.

What do you think about including Khadgar and/or Maiev or the reason I mentioned? --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 22:31, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm unsure with Khadgar. He is the leader of Dalaran, Kirin Tor and the Six which may or may not be in the Alliance (lorewise).--Mordecay (talk) 18:38, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

No, they don't really belong there, and neither does Thargas or Broll. See above. --g0urra[T҂C] 08:08, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

|label1 = Main leaders |data1 = King Anduin Wrynn
Council of Three Hammers
Gelbin Mekkatorque
Tyrande Whisperwind
Malfurion Stormrage
Prophet Velen
Genn Greymane
Aysa Cloudsinger |label2 = Secondary leaders |data2 = Jaina Proudmoore
Halford Wyrmbane
Danath Trollbane
Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth
Master Mathias Shaw
Radulf Leder
Brann Bronzebeard
Muninn Magellas
Kurdran Wildhammer
Vanndar Stormpike
Vereesa Windrunner
Shandris Feathermoon
Jarod Shadowsong
Su'ura Swiftarrow
Triumvirate of the Hand
Nobundo
Lord Darius Crowley
Tess Greymane
Lorna Crowley |label3 = Former leaders |data3 = King Varian Wrynn ^†
Bolvar Fordragon ^†
Archbishop Benedictus ^†
Marcus Jonathan ^†
Taylor ^†
Magni Bronzebeard
Fandral Staghelm ^†
Vindicator Maraad ^†

I made another version. Removed champions, class leaders, partly allied, and one time characters, just keeping important leaders of important organizations who have recurring roles, and also adding a few I missed. --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 02:16, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

Turalyon and Alleria confirmed as Alliance

Ian Bates has reported from the Blizzcon 2017 Battle for Azeroth demo that Turalyon and Alleria are present at the Stormwind Embassy as members of the Alliance. Can they be added as Secondary Leaders, under Jaina? --Skirdus (talk) 18:47, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Not yet, for two reasons. First, being members of the Alliance doesn't mean they're actually leading anything (and this template is, frankly, already bloated with characters whose secondary leadership roles are questionable). Second, this early in the process everything is still in flux so we typically wait until much close to the expansion's launch to start modifying pages like this. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:56, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Exactly. The process needs to be at least in beta before main articles start changing and even then its preferred late beta so we're not cleaning up more than we will need to if things change (and they will). Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 19:35, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Void elves

Now that the void elves have officially joined the Alliance, would it not make sense to add Magister Umbric as a secondary leader, seeing as he leads the allied race? He was the one who actually pledged them originally, as with Aysa Cloudsinger and the Tushui pandaren. --Qintus (talk) 15:01, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Icon updates

|label1 = Main leaders |data1 = King Anduin Wrynn
Council of Three Hammers
Gelbin Mekkatorque
Tyrande Whisperwind
Malfurion Stormrage
Prophet Velen
Genn Greymane
Aysa Cloudsinger |label2 = Secondary leaders |data2 = Jaina Proudmoore
Halford Wyrmbane
Danath Trollbane
Grand Admiral Jes-Tereth
Master Mathias Shaw
Radulf Leder
Brann Bronzebeard
Muninn Magellas
Kurdran Wildhammer
Vanndar Stormpike
Vereesa Windrunner
Shandris Feathermoon
Jarod Shadowsong
Su'ura Swiftarrow
Triumvirate of the Hand
Nobundo
Lord Darius Crowley
Tess Greymane
Lorna Crowley |label3 = Former leaders |data3 = King Varian Wrynn ^†
Bolvar Fordragon ^†
Archbishop Benedictus ^†
Marcus Jonathan ^†
Taylor ^†
Magni Bronzebeard
Fandral Staghelm ^†
Vindicator Maraad ^†

--ShadowShade81413 (talk) 19:17, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Done. Xporc (talk) 19:27, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

BfA

Shouldn't Fareeya and Umbric being added too, since Tyrande and Malfurion are also co-leaders that are both included? Also Jaina's icon should be updated (Jaina3). --ShadowShade81413 (talk) 20:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Let's continue this discussion at Forum:Defining Secondary Leaders. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:21, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Allied Race Cities

It would be possible add the capital cities of the allied races (Telogrus Rift and the Vindicaar) in the Other major cities ? Thanks SargerasDoomhammer (talk) 00:32, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Shadowforge City should be added to allied cities. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JukneG (talk · contr).