User talk:Mordecay

Previous discussions archived:

• User talk:Mordecay/Archive01 (April, 2011 - May, 2017)
• User talk:Mordecay/Archive02 (June, 2017 - August, 2018)
• User talk:Mordecay/Archive03 (August, 2018 - January 2021)
• User talk:Mordecay/Archive04 (2021 - 2023)

Language links

Hey Mordecay! Grats on getting your name back. As I understand, it's still being looked into if it'll be feasible to bring over the Spanish version of the wiki. I think by now, the other language variants are more or less entirely inactive though. I don't think we need to go and revert removal of the Spanish links, but at least for that one, it might be fine to hold off on clearing what remains. PeterWind (talk) 12:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Heya, whops, I saw Suraf's comment here and assumed they are to be removed :D Sure, I can ignore them for now. -- Mordecay (talk) 12:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Ah my bad, should've been more clear. Yea, feel free to remove other language links but Spanish right now is up in limbo. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 12:40, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Do you no longer want Spanish links as well? -- Mordecay (talk) 19:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Timeline - Dark Riders

I saw you moved Dark Riders (comic) in the Timeline down from the ending of World of Warcraft: Book Four in Secrets of Ulduar down to the end of Fall of the Lich King (right before cata). I was wondering if there was a source we could cite to this? When I reread it I didn't see any indication of timeline other than it taking place right after the Special issue that happened when Algalon observed Azeroth at the end of Ulduar. I couldn't find any references with connected characters or artifacts that would place it elsewhere either. Is there something I missed here? - - Akaria (T|C) 02:25, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Heya, the connection is made directly in Curse of the Worgen #5, where Valorn says: "... for the Scythe of Elune to make a difference. It was liberated from Duskwood mere days ago." And from the end of Dark Riders, we know that Brink was to deliver it to a night elf. This is just before Forsaken and Gilneans attack each other near Duskhaven. -- Mordecay (talk) 08:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks! I'll put those down as a source! - - Akaria (T|C) 20:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Np. Nice work on the Timeline page, btw! Mordecay (talk) 20:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! It just got fed up with some inconsistencies and questions on it haha. Thanks for going through and fixing all my dyslexic mistakes and catching the little things like this! Fixed my signatures, copied your template method and cheesed it to make it not do the 10 line signature haha. - Akaria (T|C) 21:21, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Terrace of the Moon

Yo man, fix the remaining links since you moved the page, thanks Xporc (talk) 17:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Ok? -- Mordecay (talk) 17:52, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Re: Molten Leadspike.png

I am always mindful of how much space there is around the subject matter in an image. It's always a balance between the size of an image versus where the human eyeball will naturally focus on. (If you need an example of what I'm talking about, you can view File:Lelyn Swiftshadow.jpg).

So with the above in mind, the space to the left of the mob in my screenshot upload for Molten Leadspike isn't just padding. The intent was to have the eye focus closer to the face instead of gobsmack in the middle of the torso. That is all. --Alayea (talk) 23:06, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Definitely an interesting take on the eye focus, but editors generally try to crop out the excess background. But if you feel it really helps in this case, feel free to change the image back, at least from my perspective. -- Mordecay (talk) 08:55, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Belanaar Harbor

It was "Bel'ameth Harbor" in the previous PTR build, but was changed to "Belanaar Harbor" in this one. - Linneris (talk) 11:41, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Correct. -- Mordecay (talk) 11:45, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for fixing all my screw ups. Hope you don't mind too much. -- Kaamara

Not at all, and those are not screw-ups. Your pages are very good! Also, signatures are created by using this: ~~~~ -- Mordecay (talk) 09:38, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Would like to thank you too, since I'm relatively new here. Vážne ti ďakujem! Keep up the good work! ^^ -- Rei Elison

Nie je zač ;) -- Mordecay (talk) 05:50, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Mordent Evenshade's level

When I checked the PTR, he appeared as a lvl 52 in Bel'ameth in Amirdrassil. I don't know if he perhaps appears as within the DF level bracket earlier on though. PeterWind (talk) 20:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh shoot, the df-max was meant for the Amirdrassil party appearance, but even that appearance has him with lvl 52 according to Wowhead, thought it is 70 like the rest of them. Reverting now, sry. -- Mordecay (talk) 20:59, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

No worries! I haven't checked the party appearance myself, so I assumed that's why you reverted, if he appeared as 70 there. Typical Blizzconsistency with the levels of course. PeterWind (talk) 21:05, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Classic coordinates maps

Adding (Classic) to the end of the zone for coordinates templates just breaks it by displaying a non-existent map. Please don't change these unless you're linking to a map that actually exists. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:07, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Redirect links need to be created, coords links with (Classic) are ok. -- Mordecay (talk) 19:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Quantum items

Hey, nice work on those quantum items! I hadn't really been sure about the best way to go about those. Seems there's a lot of stuff previously marked as "removedfrombeta" available from those items. Right now I'm just thinning out the item stubs a bit, but I figure I'll just apply the same kind of edits to cases I come across during that project.

The process I use right now is basically just copy the in-game link from Wowhead, and then check in-game with the "All The Things" addon, as it'll usually name a source, if cases have been registered. Not a perfect system, as it still relies on the sources being registered in the addon, but it's a start! There's likely a bunch of the items that I'll tag as removed, that are also available from these quantum items, but where cases haven't been registered yet.

After having worked some more on the stubs, I might go over over some of the gear from the various "removed" categories, to see if more cases like that have been registered. I probably won't update the individual quantum pages for now, but feel free to if you prefer! Instead I was thinking I'd just check by "What links here" on the quantum item in question, after I've had enough of stubs and need a break. PeterWind (talk) 14:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah, so it is that addon, I was wondering how you found those items, gonna check it. You checking "What links here" on the Quantum items later sounds good. -- Mordecay (talk) 14:12, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

Old Goblins

Hey, thanks for the help with the goblin pages. For example, with a page like Grimble, how should I update their photo, especially with the base photo being [File:GrimbleCata.jpg]... do I have the perms to move photos around to change their filename? How do i do that? Thanks for the help! Chickachoy (talk) 00:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Heya, yeah you should be able to move files. If you want to clean the names the same way I did - to have the "main" image have just the NPC name - open File:Grimble.jpg, then mouseover to the "More" tab near the Search bar and click on Move. Add a new file name (maybe "old" or "Classic") and untick the "Leave a redirect behind" option. Then move File:GrimbleCata.jpg to Grimble the same way.

Also should have mentioned it yesterday, the reason I reverted/reuploaded your file yesterday was due to the existence Category:Former goblin models, which is seemingly kept for historical purposes. Not that your action was incorrect, tho, since not every single Classic goblin image is in that category. -- Mordecay (talk) 08:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Screenshot sparkles

I forget if this has been mentioned on the wiki as well, but it seems that going to the graphics settings and disabling "Particle density" can remove sparkles as well. In a lot of cases, it also makes various objects look a lot less interesting, if these objects use any particle effects. So it's not always a great solution, but it should be a way to deal with the sparkles that won't go away even with alt+z spam. PeterWind (talk) 22:06, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Oh, didn't know about that setting, will check it out, thx. -- Mordecay (talk) 22:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Certain object IDs

Hey! Maybe you're already familiar with this trick, but I only figured this combination out a few days ago, so I thought I might share here as well. For objects like Captain's Log and The Diary of CV - Part III that don't show up in the usual databases, you can find a bunch of them under the GameObjects table on wago. You input the name of the object under "Name_lang". "ID" is just the object ID, and "OwnerID" is the map number, that you can click to see what zone that actually corresponds to. "Pos_0", "Pos_1" and "Pos_2" tells the coordinates on that map, in terms of X, Y and Z. So for "The Diary of CV - Part III", where the coordinates are "-394.98", "-1137.75" and "227.37", you can track those numbers down on the relevant map here. You can simply copy the OwnerID into the drop down menu of the map-site. PeterWind (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Whoo, that's interesting, already found a tome in the Ohn'ahran Plains with this! Thx.

Edit: One more thing, which ID to add to the wiki for Alchemy for Dryads? Wago shows three entries with what appears the same coords, but three different IDs. Well, went with the owner/map that was working. -- Mordecay (talk) 08:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I think that's fine. In that specific case I'm guessing that the other OwnerID/Map IDs are for different phases. But I'm not 100% sure. There are some curious cases, where you might even stumble upon names in the wago table, that you can confirm with the location, but where the name doesn't show up in game. For The Diary of CV - Part IV and The Diary of CV - Part VI, the objects have no mouse-over text, but it's clearly those objects even so. Clicking a "DisplayID" and then "FileDataID" while in the "GameObjectDisplayInfo" table should give you the filename for the in-game model. Doesn't seem like wago lets you see the actual model, but for everything from 10.0.2 or earlier, I believe WoW Tools should still do the trick. So there's a number of tricks we can use here. Both in terms of tracking down IDs as well as finding objects in the world, based on the info from the tables there. PeterWind (talk) 23:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

hi, butting in for a moment--there is a way to use wow.tools to view current models! wow.tools.local lets you view files from your computer using the wow.tools interface. while the program is open, it basically sets up a temporary locally-hosted "website" that you can navigate to in your browser.

there's also wow.export which is more like wow model viewer, but with the ability to quickly export images of models. the controls for it elude me a little though, i can't figure out how to make everything... not be T-posing, eheh Eithris (talk) 02:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Ohh nice! Gets around how wow.tools won't have the newest stuff. PeterWind (talk) 05:47, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Battlenet

Hey Morde! I was thinking that with some of our various projects, it might be convenient with a more direct line than the talk pages here. I completely understand if you'd rather avoid that though. If you want, you can add me on battle.net on "Elrox#2505". PeterWind (talk) 16:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Sure why not. -- Mordecay (talk) 19:36, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Antonidas Memorial

Heya Mordecay! I was checking the split requests when i saw that you put one in 2018 on the Antonidas Memorial page. Looking back, I wonder if this is really necessary, what do you think of it after all this time? Wards (talk) 11:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey, removed it. Statues are a bit tricky, while some have their own pages, majority of them are "merged" in the character pages, like the Sons of Lothar statues in Stormwind, for example. Antonidas' statue can stay in the subzone page, I guess. -- Mordecay (talk) 12:34, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

Patch 11.0.0 undocumented note

Hey, what is the context for the "The extra text under portrait by quest text can be scrolled." note? What interface is this referring to? — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 13:08, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

The one that we use the {{questportrait}} for. -- Mordecay (talk) 13:12, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you know if the portrait model could be rotated before TWW? It can be now, but not sure if it was possible before. -- Mordecay (talk) 11:18, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that text was scrollable before, it was just rare that there was enough of it that scrolling was needed. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:47, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

my memory's not the best, but i recall the text getting truncated with an ellipsis at the end when it was too long to fit in the box Eithris (talk) 23:18, 25 August 2024 (UTC)

I remember an ellipsis as well. Might be good time to check out Cata Classic for the text and pic. -- Mordecay (talk) 04:07, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your help!

Just wanted to express my thanks for cleaning up after me as I do the TWW quest dialogue, the articles look substantially better after your hand. I didn't know about {dialogue}! If you have suggestions for me feel free to let me know. Cheers! Chickachoy (talk) 11:32, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Heh, np. Good work getting the text! Yea, the {{dialogue}} template is relatively new, but it really makes it visually better.

Well, one suggestion would be regarding {{Text}}, to use indents with it (thus "
" at the end will not be needed), to better distinguish what is what. For example, here is the dialogue and then the sentence "Report to Moira." with no indent, which should make it clearer and more readable/visually better. So add indents to in-game stuff with the Text template and the description of NPCs during the dialogue (who arrives, who leaves, who waves, etc.), with italics. Then no indents with sentences that provide direction to the player, like "Go to that shop in upper Dornogal and speak with those troublemakers. Kill them. The owner has gossip:" A short pseudo-header with a ";" is somewhat okay (some editors/admins might say otherwise :P) to use too where it makes sense, like ";On accept" or ";On approach". Don't think "On approach;" works tho, or at least I don't see what it's supposed to do :-D -- Mordecay (talk) 12:11, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

Dear Mordecay,

Thank you for your help with my editing. I am a lore nerd and grammar nerd who has been a proud Warcrafter since the days of The Burning Crusade. I do not always get it right but I try to be as accurate as I can. Thank you for your help in trying to make this site as accurate as possible. Have a Happy New Year and Good Adventuring!

Sincerely,

Gabbriel47

Grammar / typo corrections are appreciated in metatext, various (lore) summaries written by editors, but game transcripts (quest text, quotes, or adventure guide stuff, etc) should be 1:1 as they are in the game. {{sic}} can be used there. Also use ~~~~ for signatures. Happy new year to you too! -- Mordecay (talk) 00:17, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Alleria's timeline

Heya Mordi, as far as i know, and according to the Timeline, the void elves were recruited during the patch 7.3.5 just after the end of the invasion. In fact, in the quest  [45] The Call for Allies Anduinn mentions that Sargeras has [just] planted the sword, that the Horde is preparing for war (notably by mining Azerite in Silithus), which led to the recruitement of the void elves, space goats, etc... In parallel, Windrunner: Three Sisters is the "third tie-in for the World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth expansion", taking place "around a month after the events of Argus" according to Christie Golden. So therefore, the recruitment took place just after Argus, while the comic takes place a little later. What do you think ? Wards (talk) 20:07, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Heya, seems those events might be really close. I put void elves closer to BfA due to Before the Storm and Chronicle 4. As Chronicle describes the time between Legion and BfA, it has paragraphs The Three Sisters followed by a parapghaph with allied race recruitment. Both sections are put after the summary of Before the Storm. Checked now World of Warcraft: Sylvanas - it doesn't mention allied races, but it does offer order - first the start of Before the Storm, then The Three sisters, then the end/aftermath of the Gathering. Before the Storm set after Legion, seemingly concurrently with the Silithus quests, and deals with members of the Alliance and Horde, their celebrations (which we have cinematics for), leadership meetings, and the Gathering meeting. The new members (allied race) are not mentioned here at all, which to me is an indication that they are not yet recruited, and that is the reason I followed Chornicle's order.

I'm rereading the quest text and I'm wondering whether during the post-Legion celebrations and the preparation for the Gathering meeting (both of which happened in Before the Storm), if Anduin and Sylvanas would already be preparing for war by recruiting new races. Too bad we didn't get more references about the Gathering in the game in 735 so that the timeline would be clearer.

Not sure if it is relevant to the story and the discussion, but allied race questlines in patch 7.3.5 were available as early access for pre-purchaching BfA, would that do something to the timeline? -- Mordecay (talk) 19:30, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I understand better now, the timeline was indeed a little confusing, but in view of the different sources which agree in this way, I will therefore follow the Chronicle 4 timeline as you are currently doing. Thanks for letting me know, I'll just find a better name than "Void elves" for the section lol Wards (talk) 19:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Stubs

Just because there exists some piece of information, however small, that could conceivably be added to a page, does not make the page a stub. A stub is a page that is fundamentally, significantly lacking in information. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:25, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Correct. I did go back and remove some of the Azj-Kahet NPC stubs immediately after noticing your edits on them. But most of the times, there's no need to remove them when basic information and sections are missing and best what's there is one incomplete sentence. Tbh, I see no real value and reason in opening a page just to remove a stub without adding/touching the content, which seems redundant and unnecessarily time-consuming to many here. This is especially the case when the next day you can literally see editors who do update and care for certain types of pages (with the change value quite high, which means there was a lot of info missing). I consider subzones, summaries, abilities, quotes, and other sections that are oftentimes missing as general content that should be present on pages not just something "optional". Same with quests, the main point of a quest page is having its text, and not not having it. An indicator of that should not be a problem as it is being made to be. The main point is that the stub category is helpful with Intersections when doing mass updates, which I often use and do. For example the recent live PTR stub/cat, I've been taking care of it for the past year or more, mostly updating the pages with the info that's missing (I remember almost 1,000 PTR pages from the Df era brought close to 0), instead of just removing it. Intersections make the editing process a bit easier because one can focus on one "type" of articles and add stuff a bit quicker that way. Siren Isle content is new, lots of it hasn't been seen or even released. I'm confident to say you can rest easy, Siren Isle pages will be updated and stubs removed when I/others get to them, and when Wowhead finally has all the stuff needed for import. -- Mordecay (talk) 14:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Stub/PTR templates

Hello! Just wanted to point out an ongoing vote regarding {t|Stub/PTR} and its section companion, {t|Stub/PTR-section}: Forum:Revisiting Stub templates. Please feel free to voice your opinion on this proposal. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 04:26, 27 December 2024 (UTC)

Spelling

Could you please leave my spellings alone unless I've made an actual mistake? It's not against the rules to spell a word the non-American way. I'm not trying to be rude or start an argument, and I know it's quite a minor thing, but it's something that bothers me. Kaamara 00:25, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Warcraft_Wiki:Manual_of_Style#Dialect - "As Blizzard is based in the United States, the source material will be in American English. Therefore, to maintain consistency, American English spelling and grammar should be used"

If you search for flavour and flavor, you can see BrE in 10 pages, AmE in faaaaar more.

Not sure what's the point of those reverts. -- Mordecay (talk) 00:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Guidelines are not rules. I'm not going start a revert war but I'm not going to change how I spell things. Please stop. Kaamara 00:44, 18 January 2025 (UTC)

Hello, I just want to add that there was some confusion in Discord regarding this and I explained it a bit more. Apologizes for this. Reiterating what I said in Discord here:

To put it simply, basically since the guideline states to use American-English, that's the suggestion. While guidelines are not policy, they are here to help keep Warcraft Wiki consistent and streamlined. What Mordecay is doing is fine, don't let other edits that come in and correct your edits afterwards discourage you. Your edits are completely fine! The take away from this, assume good faith. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 19:39, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

I'm sorry for snapping, Mordecay. Not an excuse, but I was having a bad day. Kaamara 23:00, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Not a problem at all, keep up the good work! -- Mordecay (talk) 23:31, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

WoW Icons

Please do not upload the icons from Wowhead as they're poor quality. Please see the following section on how to upload these icons: Warcraft Wiki:WoW Icons § I want to upload an icon I can't find! — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 06:06, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

Alright. -- Mordecay (talk) 07:02, 27 January 2025 (UTC)

New stub category replacements

Hey! Could you see how Category:Potentially out-of-date content works for you? It is currently only applied to {{Patch 11.1.5}}, checks for the "added." note, and articles will only be removed once they're edited after the April 22 date. Looking to see ways to provide more useful categories and tools for editors like yourself and PeterWind instead of you relying on Stub categories. For current PTR content where the patch doesn't have a release date, I'm thinking of introducing "Category:Upcoming content" and they'll switch to the potentially out of date category on patch release.

Additionally, there is the Category:Old content category. It adds articles to it if they haven't been edited for the last 7 years (currently before December 31, 2018). Let me know how this works as well and if there are more WoW content that should have this check (e.g. infoboxes that should have this check and you can see the current list with this check on the template itself at {{OldContentCheck}}). — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 12:22, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

Well, I don't mind relying on stub categories tbh, especially now :D

But to be clear, if you say replacements, which stub categories are getting replaced with these? The Future patch stubs one or all / basic stub categories?

Anyway, was wondering how exactly that Potentially out-of-date content category would be taken out, so if it is editing after release day that's interesting and should be good for the most part. I think that sometimes the edit may be in a smaller scope and could miss other info (for example, lets say a quest page edit would be just to edit a typo in name or Objective text but would still be missing Progress, Completion, and Notes text, or in  [Arathi Entertainer's Flame] the edit would be to add just the missing cooldown and not adding the source sentence. These came in mind when I read your explanation, but I guess these would probably be just very rare cases and should be caught or found later.

Category:Upcoming content name sounds good. If it could be used in place of the <expac> category, that would be cool.

For Category:Old content, I guess is ok to have, no strong opinion on that one yet. Tho the number it displays now is off putting (maybe if possible exclude removedfromalpha/beta/ptr & testing?). But yeah I can imagine checking it.

I do have a suggestion/idea. So I understand that the potentially out of date, upcoming, and old content categories would include their content only temporarily. What I was thinking about was to have categories with permanent content based on Patch number. That way, we could have an additional (and hopefully quicker) way of intersecting and finding content that could potentionally need update. If it would work with the type of infobox, it would be even better. So lets say the NPC Jake Howard was added in patch 8.0.1, so if there's a patch number and the word Added, it would generate [Category:NPCs added in patch 8.0.1]. A quest added in 11.1.0 would do [Category:Quests added in patch 11.1.0] and so on. Alternatively, it could just be [Category:Content added in patch xxx] since not all articles use infoboxes (objects & subzones). That way, we are one click (category) away to checking the newest and old content. Thoughts? -- Mordecay (talk) 15:00, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

I could've worded the section here better but these are not really intended as a replacement for Stubs as stubs have their own use (see the vote on this and why I'm looking to resolve this). Just currently stubs are used in a unintended way when they should only be used when the article is barebones like the  [Arathi Entertainer's Flame] example. I meant that introducing these as something better for power editors like yourself rather than continuing to use the Stubs to mark articles as missing all kinds of information. An NPC that has every basic info about it like patch, infobox and lede no longer make it a stub. If the NPC has abilities but they're not listed, it doesn't make them a stub as that's just additional information over what is "required" (info that is basically used on every page that gets created e.g. infobox and lede).

Some quests don't need a "Notes" section but most will have a Description, all will have a completion text, and some will have progress text. Quests that require doing an objective rather than just a breadcrumb quest, always expect a progress text. In these cases where Description, Completion, or Progress are missing - that's a stub. Those are expected if the quest actually has them but in these cases, if most of the quest article is already filled but say the Progress section is still empty, {{stub-section}} would be used there if the quest indeed should have it because you are required to do something before turning it in. Same thing with the description or completion text. But if majority of the quest is missing its vital information (no progress text, completion, etc.), that's a {{stub}}. Now if everything is filled then they're not a stub - even if the quest could use a "Notes" section. If the patch just released that included this quest, they'll be in the potentially out-of-date category regardless if their sections are filled or not but will only appear in that category if their last edit was prior to the defined date in the template.

For the Old content category, I could probably see about it excluding test/removed content. Ideally this category is meant to just add older content from beyond 7 years ago that haven't been edited for sometime now and won't ever appear in the potentially out-of-date. Consider this as like a filter for WoW content over the Special:AncientPages that includes every kind of article across the wiki which includes Lore, API, etc.

I could totally see "Added in patch x" categories in addition to the current "removed from patch x". Although this might need a discussion first to see what other wiki editors think about this and we can't expect to create categories for vanilla patches at this time as most vanilla content lacks patch added information. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 15:49, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

I had seen the Stub policy talk, and it is true that Stubs may be forgotten on complete pages. But since I mostly/generally focus on the content on quest and NPC pages, I can't agree with some of the other points there (or here above; I don't consider some info on NPC pages as "optional"). The way I create many pages (from Wowhead, outside the game), I usually leave out subzones, gossip, and context if any, since I don't have them. Having stubs/categories there is a nice indicator that they need to checked/added. So my second and last (and a bit wilder than the first) suggestion was about having an NPCbox parameter that when added, it would generate a hidden category telling it needs the in-game stuff (subzone, gossip, and abilities) -- Mordecay (talk) 18:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

How would a Npcbox param determine that a NPC needs gossip, abilities, etc. sections? There isn't anyway to determine that without having gone in-game yourself to get that information but at that point why mark it as a stub when you have the info? We can't just leave a stub on an article assuming that there is this possibility of content. There has to be some point where an article is no longer a Stub. Information that is expected to be on every article should be what determines if an article is a stub or not. An NPC missing an abilities section is not "required" for an NPC article to be in a good state. Gossip is a gray area as that has lore implications but articles still shouldn't be marked as a stub if it doesn't have - ideally if the article is filled up but we know the NPC for sure has gossip in-game, the section should be created and marked as a stub-section instead while avoiding the Stub section policy: "Similarly, do not add sections that contain a stub tag, and no actual content, to an article.". At that point the effort to add that section should just be to add the content as well.

I think "added in patch x" categories might be a great middle-man to this whole mess in addition to the other new categories that I've mentioned. It could possibly help solve the issues and frustrations that is the whole Stubs situation and help keep a check on what content hasn't been checked for sometime or recently released content that needs a new pass. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 22:15, 13 April 2025 (UTC)

What I was thinking was to have that param added by editors, if they know they didn't check the NPC in the game & the page is missing the subzone, abilities, gossip. Oftentimes, I find myself adding missing subzones thanks to stubs, and it would be nice to have that option still.

Yeah, the new categories so far are ok, and the "added in X" could be as well, as we are still fixing old tbc & wotlk numbers, and that way we could have another way of tracking them instead of just randomly stumbling upon them :D -- Mordecay (talk) 04:21, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Ahh, just a little hidden check, for cases where you create pages purely from out-of-game sources? Might be nice. PeterWind (talk) 08:34, 14 April 2025 (UTC)

Maybe? Adding support for it would either require all articles to be added in by default which would be way too much work, or be done manually and that's the only kind of pointless edits that'll appear in the RecentChanges (exaggerating obviously) for quite a bit. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 17:04, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Category:Content added by patch. Starting with these patches only. Going to see how this works, make necessary tweaks then we can expand beyond this. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 07:50, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Underpin's Well-Connected Friend's entourage's titles, including Underpin's Friend of a Friend

• 
• 

I don't know why Wowhead doesn't show this. The titles of these mobs as of game ver. 11.1.5 are:

• Underpin's Friend's Agent <Hired by Underpin's Well-Connected Friend>
• Underpin's Friend's Broker <Purchased by Underpin's Well-Connected Friend>
• Underpin's Friend's Mother <Underpin's Well-Connected Friend's Ancestor>
• Underpin's Friend of a Friend <Underpin's Well-Connected Friend's Assistant>
• Aggressively Lost Hobgoblin <Underpin's Fan>

— JavaRogers (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, not sure either, but thanks for these! Reinstated the titles I removed. Feel free to add the remaining ones. -- Mordecay (talk) 22:03, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Ahh, so that's how it was. PeterWind (talk) 02:56, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

TCG articles

When creating the TCG articles, they should include a lede. Not just the infobox and navigation. Something like '''Card Name''' is a card from the [[Set Name]] set. will do. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 21:39, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Edited my template, but can a bot add it? Currently, the majority, if not all, don't have it. -- Mordecay (talk) 21:42, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Yea I can look into it but new articles should include it already. Most of them that have existed since don't include it because the original infobox format didn't allow it. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 21:47, 1 June 2025 (UTC)

Patch changes

Hey, starting with {{Patch 11.2.0}} do added= for the added note instead of the normal note=Added.. If it needs a modified added note, added=Added, replaced so and so.. I'll be botting past patches to use this as well in the future. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 06:51, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

All right. -- Mordecay (talk) 07:38, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

Images question

Yo, I just noticed you added messages to the top of the screen on the images that I added stating that the images need to be better. I've honestly just been taking the ones that are on Wowhead because I figured it would be the fastest and easiest way and being a perfectionist trying to make good screenshots myself of some mobs was kind of frustrating especially if they move around a lot. The problem there is that if I take the bigger, original versions of those images, Wowhead automatically adds a watermark to it, which from what I understood isn't ideal. After realizing that I started taking the images straight from the main screen of the mobs which wouldn't include the watermark, but those versions are also way smaller which I guess is probably the main problem with most of the images I've uploaded last 2 days. My question is do I have to make new screenshots myself of mobs or is it fine to keep using Wowhead? Nicrot (talk) 20:25, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

Hey, yeah I recognized them as the small versions from Wowhead, so I went ahead and added the tag. I think now that we have Classics we could try taking proper pictures. I just quickly double-checked the guide, policy, and manual of style, and I don't see the minimum resolution there (correct me if I missed it). I'm personally not a fan of the small images, but that doesn't mean they cannot be uploaded here, so maybe upload them, but add the tag? What do others think? PW, Suraf, Zeratul, Wards, etc... -- Mordecay (talk) 20:59, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

What you said, cropping from wowhead is a thing, but we need better quality images, with higher size, and less pixelated. So yes, we should take screens by ourselves rather than from wowhead. Wards (talk) 21:49, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

I don't think there was ever a note on image resolutions as I think it is just common sense but I can add something to the MOS. If you crop images and they're small, it'll get tagged for cleanup (in most cases, otherwise it'll be deleted as low quality). If an image has a watermark, it'll be tagged with {{watermark}}. So really it's one or the other in these cases. I'd take a full image with a watermark over a small image if I'm honest. But ideally, going in-game and getting a screenshot is the best way if possible.

I like to throw Massive Infernal as an image example of "best one we got". But still argue that small images, aren't really helpful and may just be better with no image instead. At least for a beta image, it has a purpose. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 01:15, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Ideally we should probably aim for a modern resolution shot from Classic, for these pages. But it all takes time of course. So in most cases, I don't personally mind uploading a wowhead shot without watermark for now. The quality tag is a good idea too though. PeterWind (talk) 11:54, 17 July 2025 (UTC)

Food and drink

I'm largely just testing and experimenting with things with the food and drink stuff, don't be afraid to revert if you don't like something. SirWeltschmerz (talk) 07:46, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

Experiment away.

My two cents tho, I'd prefer to move away from splitting the Sells table into two or more (for one appearance) and have it all in one table with the type column, which, I guess, would mean moving away from the Vendors template. -- Mordecay (talk) 07:51, 10 September 2025 (UTC)

External links

Please stop adding external links to articles that have nothing to do with the context. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 17:30, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

I'm not adding external links that have nothing to do with the context. You are removing ones that are relevant to the pages. Stop removing them. -- Mordecay (talk) 17:45, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

They actually do not have any context for the encounters. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 17:50, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

If you actually checked them, you would see that they do. -- Mordecay (talk) 17:50, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Yes I did check them to be sure and removed the ones that are not relevant to the article. I don't blindly remove them. Wowhead tends to be wrong with many things, it is always best to double check other sources. Council encounters are great to link the multiple bosses you fight while for singlular bosses, it should be linked to THAT boss, not every single instance of the NPC like some that just appears as a non-attackable NPC in some place in the instance for example. Not every ID needs to be linked. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 17:57, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

For several expansions now, most boss encounters have had the data split among two IDs, one for encounter text and the second one for quotes, abilities, and loot. Both HAVE RELEVANT data and are not even empty for those that I restored. They should be present. -- Mordecay (talk) 18:03, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

I'll recheck them and mark them appropriately. However again, you can't be certain that the data is accurate for duplicates. There have been many cases where the other ID never appears and just contains duplicated data for the one that is actually there. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 18:08, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Okay, I've rechecked them all and added most of them back per your argument, even some that I'd argue don't make sense for it for how little to no information it provides over what is on the encounter article (e.g. The Darkness). However there were still some that just had no information whatsoever (Ol' Waxbeard third ID), duplicated information (Stormguard Gorren), or were irrelevant to the article. (Stix Bunkjunker)

Going forward, please start marking them appropriately so it is clear what the additional ID provides over the main one rather than leaving them headerless. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 18:48, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

For Stix, are you sure the humanoid ID isn't present? It shows as having an ability on wowhead. It would be a good idea to check with tracking before, if this hasn't already been done. It's quite typical for such encounters to have the quotes tied to the "mount" NPC. Even then, while the topic has been brought up a few times on discord, this is hardly a settled issue. PeterWind (talk) 19:14, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

The issue brought up in Discord was mostly in regards to the amount of links and when limit/use search (the current limit per link is 1, which clearly the policy is being overridden everywhere). I'll be doing a policy update (with a vote obviously) in a couple weeks. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 19:48, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Gorren actually has two appearances with two different models and IDs appearing in the game. Even though the encounter pages are about the encounters, of course; other appearances there and details shouldn't be omitted. Adding the requested context there, tho. For Stix, the encounter is comprised of both - first start off with the mech then they split, and the raid fights the goblin as well. -- Mordecay (talk) 19:24, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Good on confirming Gorren, and adding the headers - that helps. I did not see Stix spawn there, for the amount of times I've done that encounter. re Peter: A single ability on wowhead could just be incorrect data. Feel free to confirm it however. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 19:48, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

Never mind my comment for Stix, it was likely a different trash mob actually :-D. I don't see him in videos, but there may have been a portrait change for the boss - will double-check it. Even if he doesn't appear separately, it feels like we should list him, since the boss model is comprised of two, the mech and the goblin, and he is visible. -- Mordecay (talk) 20:59, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

I don't think it makes sense to include that ID when it provides nothing, if it was a lore article then fine but this is an encounter article. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 04:03, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

The goblin is part of the boss encounter model, which is split into two IDs. The goblin actually does something at the end of the encounter, which is now included in the article, so context is given. If a page is "an encounter page" instead of "lore page" (no real reason to set it up like that, as it is more about appearance), it doesn't mean that non-encounter info is going to be omitted from the page. -- Mordecay (talk) 07:54, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

If the ID has no information and does not appear anywhere, it isn't relevant. That's it. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 07:57, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

Alliance Exile's Reach

heya, can you hold off on updating the alliance exile's reach pages to the new version just yet? once the servers come up, i plan on moving the existing pages over to (Alliance Shadowlands) where necessary, then creating new pages for the updated versions

thank you, Eithris (talk) 22:38, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Guess, I can go to sleep then :P -- Mordecay (talk) 22:39, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

nighty night then. i promise not to break anything q: Eithris (talk) 22:40, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

Battle pet supply vendor template

While removing the link to the blacksmithing template vendor, I noticed that Template:Battle pet supply vendors was listed on your wiki aid. Do you want me to add that to Category:Pages using deprecated vendor templates or do you want to keep using that template? SirWeltschmerz (talk) 11:59, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

For this specific table, I don't mind either way - having it or deleting it. As far as I can tell, it doesn't cause issues with cost and sorting, as the other tables do, but I do see two pages using it that should very likely not use it since they offer more items than those in the table. -- Mordecay (talk) 12:37, 12 December 2025 (UTC)

"Zones by level" colors

The way the colors are set up makes the text invisible on light theme: https://i.imgur.com/0kYSW28.png
If my changes cause a similar problem for dark theme, clearly some sort of alternative solution to this is necessary.
—Cruci (talk) 12:07, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

Ah, I think I see the problem. The themes change the default text color. A solution to this would be overwriting the text color for these tables, so it's consistent regardless of theme.
—Cruci (talk) 12:10, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

Agreed, the template might need cleaning. I'm not well-versed in that piece, tho. Feel free to try editing it further and testing it first or ask admins like Surafbrov to review and help. -- Mordecay (talk) 12:15, 18 December 2025 (UTC)

Cologne Bottles and Perfumes

Are these still around in Retail? Both the  [Cologne Bottle] and  [Perfume Bottle] articles say they were removed in Patch 3.3.0, and that's why I removed them from the innkeepers added in Cata, since it wouldn't make sense for them to be selling items that were removed in Wrath. WoWHead can show incorrect wares I've come to find, especially between versions of the game. Although, I should also mention I haven't done Love Is in the Air since the Dragonflight revamp so I guess they could have come back with that. I'll follow your lead for now though. SirWeltschmerz (talk) 19:45, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Yeah, I think I did see them sold in recent years with innkeepers. While Wowhead data may be incorrect in some cases, Wowhead comments do say they are back from old world innkeepers. We will be able to confirm in a few weeks ;-) -- Mordecay (talk) 19:53, 11 January 2026 (UTC)

Confirming, they are sold by old innkeepers as of 2026. -- Mordecay (talk) 10:07, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Patch added fixes

Hey, just a heads up that you don't really need to fix all those manually. At some point Suraf'll fix them all with a bot like he did with the 11.x patches. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk)

Gossip

Hello, including ";Gossip" by itself is a double header problem. Please exclude it if Gossip is the only content under that section; include it when other content like actual quotes, dialogue, etc. to differentiate it from that content. Thank you — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 23:05, 22 February 2026 (UTC)

Character edit

Hey, what is this edit in reference to? The blood elf background on the character selection screen? — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 20:02, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

• The starting zone selection (between Exile's Reach & Sunstrider Isle). -- Mordecay (talk) 20:04, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Oh gotcha, thank you! — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 20:12, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

"Need to be obtained for"

heya. what's the reasoning for making every "objective of" section read "Needs to be obtained for [quest giver] for [quest]"? personally i'd think it's more useful to have the quest name first and foremost in those sections --Eithris (talk) 20:46, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

I'm thinking the items should include more info/context, like who asks for it, not just plain quest name without context. Been adding that info since Df. -- Mordecay (talk) 20:51, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

imo that kind of info would fit better in the lead. when i'm looking for gameplay info on a quest item, a link to the quest is almost always what i'm after. the name of the person giving the quest is less immediately useful, so it feels backwards to put it before the quest name in a gameplay-related section --Eithris (talk) 21:01, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Didn't think of the section as solely for "gameplay purpose". The general stuff/context can be above it, sure. -- Mordecay (talk) 21:09, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Help me complete the page for Kasiea

Excuse me, I'm now trying to complete the page for Kasiea, the void elf killed near Tranquillien. Can you please help me finish this page Thanks a lot!!! JamesZhuang (talk) 01:41, 4 March 2026 (UTC)

Done, may need some tweaking tho. -- Mordecay (talk) 07:17, 4 March 2026 (UTC)