Talk:Draenor

Classifications

Did a copy and paste from the Outland article. At some point some variety may be required. However, there are a few issues I'd like to voice, and it seems best to do it on the same page.

Firstly is the issue of Draenor's sun. I've read the prologue of Tides of Darkness (seen here and one thing that caught my eye was the issue of Draenor's sun, how prior to the orcs' corruption it was yellow and gave off a great deal of heat, while at the time of the Second War, it appears to have become cold and red, though not a red giant.

Granted the red sun could simply be due to a sunset, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And although fel magic turned Draenor into a wasteland, I doubt that it could affect its star and it couldn't have simply aged so rapidly either. Perhaps in the Warcraft universe, a planet's sun is linked to the well being of the planet itself, such as whatever link Elune may have to Azeroth itself. There's been nothing to support this however, but the star thing presents such a thought.

Or I'm over-analyzing ;)

The second issue is the matter of categories. Shouldn't Draenor be classified as a world too, in that at the time it existed, it matched the definition perfectly? As the wiki is kept up to date, Outland is essentially the world of Draenor, though doesn't match the category if one considers what a planet is. The definition will vary, but Outland is essentially a floating rock with no spherical properties that doesn't even seem to orbit its star anymore. Anyway, just a thought. The stub category will have to be removed sometime anyway.--Hawki (talk) 08:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes its a world, add any related categories as needed. Also try leave draenor history as brief as possible on the Outland page. Also this page should be the primarily source of information on Draenor before its destruction. Also minor correction Outland is a bunch of floating rocks, you only get to visit the main continent in WoW however.Baggins (talk) 08:40, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Mars?

Draenor is referred to as the "red world". Azeroth, meanwhile, is a very Earth-like planet. Does anyone else think that the relationship between Azeroth and Draenor is comparable to that between Earth and Mars? (Intentionally, not accidental.) User:DScharff24/Sig 02:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I guess not, these two planets are far away from each other, possibly in each their galaxy, while Earth and Mars are pretty close. On other points, however, I somewhat agree. --Meltheon 14:33, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Not so far from each other, Azeroth can be seen from the Black Temple courtyard.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 14:43, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Although that may be due to a rift in the nether, as Draenor is described as being located far away from Azeroth. Aedror42 (talk) 15:45, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Necropolis

Where does it say that Auchindoun is a necropolis? Is it from the quote "city of the dead"?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 14:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Conflict with other articles.

The dating for the time in which the Draenei first arrived on Draenor conflicts with a few other sources; for instance, the wowpedia article on Oshu'gun, which states that the Draenei landed on Draenor approximately two centuries ago. Is there any particular reason as to why two dates are used? Is one more recent (and thus more credible) than the other? I'm trying to make some sort of headway into the tangle that is Draenei lore. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Huy77 (talk · contr).

I believe it stems from conflicting data in the sources themselves. By the way, you can sign your posts on talk pages by typing ~~~~. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:08, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Ah. Does anyone know which source is more recent? I myself have generally gone for the more recent sources being more authoritative. If this could be cleared up, it'd assist immensely. As for signing, I have no idea what you mean. I'm sorry, I'm terrifically new to chatting here. I just want to see about clearing up some Draenei lore (I've been working on a vague timeline based on articles here, among other things.)

Warlords of Draenor

Since Warlords of Draenor creates an alternate history... shouldn't the original Draenor and the WoD Draenor have separate articles? Differences between the two are bound to increase as the expansion progresses. Egrem (talk) 21:17, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the "old" history can be kept on the Outland page. However, care should be taken to keep the differences between the two continuities easily understandable. My 2¢ -- Alayea (talk / contrib) 21:38, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

My suggestion is at Forum:Warlords of Draenor Characters--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:42, 9 November 2013 (UTC)

Draenor definitely needs a second page. It was said that nothing will be retconned and now the Draenor page is a complete mess as it contains info from the alternate Draenor.--Mordecay (talk) 15:31, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Yeah it definitely needs to be separated.--Ashbear160 (talk) 16:04, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain that we are supposed to accept that there was only ever one Draenor, with only the orcs' actions changing. That, and a lot of retcons.--SWM2448 18:41, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Blizzard has specified WoD is a divergent alternate timeline from the moment Garrosh arrives to Draenor's past, 4 years before the opening of the Dark Portal. So everything we see in the expansion that doesn't evidence to be linked with the alterations of the future, should be on this page, as the point of the expansion IS to visit Draenor. If it wasn't the case, we would be visiting another world.--Cemotucu (talk) 00:54, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

What to do when the alternative Draenor is modified by the new expansion events? like happened with Crusader's Coliseum, Lion's Landing, the corruption of Vale of Eternal Blossoms, Isle of Quel'Danas... etc --Petrovic (talk) 14:34, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I think that in that case, there should be a section called "WoD", listing all the changes. But we have to remember that most of Draenor's lore will remain (at least iniially) unchanged by Garros's doings. --Cemotucu (talk) 17:58, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Most of the Draenor's lore comes from Rise of the Horde, which's story is completely changed in the alternate timeline by Garrosh's actions. The Draenor featured in Warlords of Draenor is thus much more different than the Draenor in the main timeline. As it was reasonable in the past to have separate pages for Draenor and Outland because of innegligible differences between those (zones, settlements, flora), the new alternate Draenor should logically be described in preferably a new page or in its own section on the main Draenor page (as is usual on sci-fi wikis). It is a different thing, so a separate page. IllidanS4 (talk) 20:38, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Rise of the Horde only shows a minimal part of Draenor's history and geography. The main events of Rise of the Horde will be changed, but all the backstory of Draenorian pre-history (pre-RotH) should serve for the original Draenor.

As I said, the best is to have a separate page for the events of WoD's present, like the Alliance-Horde War page.Cemotucu (talk) 21:17, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, it's messy in the current state. Let's do that! But just a minor detail, while we were told that Garrosh's actions diverged the new timeline from the original, there isn't actually any proof of that. There could be minor differences even before Garrosh's arrival, that's how time travel works. For example, Talador was actually named Terokkar Forest even on the old Draenor (as stated in Rise of the Horde), unless it is a retcon. IllidanS4 (talk) 20:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

My guess is that Talador is the name the Draenei gave to the region that is the heart of their civilization in said world; It wouldn't be the first time. Grizzik mentioned that the Draenei were proud, so proud that they renamed the world; renaming a region is not idiotic. And the orcs used the name Terokkar Forest in RotH: likely because it was the original name of the region (named probably after Terokk, the arakkoa hero). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cemotucu (talk · contr).

That sounds most likely. Also, I have moved the subzones to use the (Warlords of Draenor) title and tomorrow I will probably complete the migration to Draenor (alternate universe) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IllidanS4 (talk · contr).

The migration is nearly completed, the content of this page is reverted to revision as of 23:56, 25 June 2013 IllidanS4 (talk) 13:45, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Titan visit

There's nothing to back up the claim that most life-bearing worlds were shaped by the titans. They did a lot, but there's no way to gauge how many there are compared to inhabited non-titan shaped worlds. And Azeroth was already life-bearing before the titans came.

Kosak said, "They kinda helped shaped Draenor and then they peaced out of there pretty early on so they didn't leave quite a big a mark." Previous lore indicates that the titans drop off their constructs and leave early in development, with the constructs doing the long-term shaping. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 07:25, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Main universe zones

Do we really want to open that can of worm? Here are my propositions:

• Tanaan Jungle redirects to Hellfire Peninsula
• Zangar Sea redirects to Zangarmarsh.
• Talador redirects to Terokkar Forest.
• Ashran redirects to Deathwing's Lair.

Because I really don't want to edit EVERY SINGLE page linking to Talador to point toward Talador (alternate universe), for example ;_; Xporc (talk) 23:24, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I think that's the best decision, making them redirect to the Outland zone. They're the same places. Just add the new info Chronicle will give us about them to the Outland zone's page (like new Tanaan info goes on Hellfire Peninsula, etc). ReignTG (talk) 23:29, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Oke. --Mordecay (talk) 23:30, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree.--SWM2448 02:07, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Trimming "Grond and the Evergrowth" Section

All of the information presented is more or less the same, and in the same order, just reworked to be more succinct. All of the citations are the same; I don't have access to the Chronicle and didn't go in with the intent of scrutinizing the information presented.

One paragraph and its information was removed entirely, though, just for brevity's sake:

"Just as the colossals marched to battle, Aggramar detected the death of a constellar somewhere across the Great Dark Beyond. Although Aggramar's work with Draenor was far from over, he was compelled to investigate the dire signal. He charged the colossals with defeating the Evergrowth in his absence and promised to return one day, then left the planet. He would never return, for his investigation eventually led to a fatal confrontation with Sargeras, who had just unleashed the Burning Legion on the physical universe."

Also removed were sections of the last paragraph of the section covering the factions and interactions between the races that arose after the fall of Botaan and the colossals. In particular, the information regarding the formation of the "Breakers" and the "Primals", as well as this description:

"The botani retained faint memories of the Evergrowth, enough to shape their culture into revering the genesaur as gods and adopting the belief of a collective spirit existing across all plant life. These two factions inevitably clashed, and the face of Draenor was carved into territories between them. The Primals and the Breakers would fight for ages to come, but neither side could completely destroy the other, achieving balance."

The information is good, but I felt it wasn't particularly relevant to a section specifically covering the period of time before any of those races existed. Bigpilgrimskey (talk) 06:28, 22 July 2022 (UTC)