Talk:Dragon Aspects

Sorcery

Do the all of the Dragon Aspects have actual sorcery/wizardry at their disposal? In Shadows and Light it had all the aspects have at least some extra magical ability, Malygos being the most, Deathwing second, and then after that there is no mention in any of the books. But since in the war in Silithus Anachronos (Nozdormu's heir) couldn't have held and sealed the gates purely with Time Magic, is it possible that all upper level dragons have magic power? Just wondering if that's something that could be added to this page or each individual page. jclipps (talk) 03:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, they do have classes and magic, yet some admins don't want that on here calling it "game mechanics" or something. Rolandius (talk - contr) 03:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

What do you mean by that? They don't want to include it because people might get the impression that it's only on there because of WoW or what? jclipps (talk) 03:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I am confused myself. One admin told me something about "no, lore only, no gameplay rules." so I am not sure what they are saying. Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:24, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully an Admin can come clarify this then. The only sign of gameplay magic by a non-blue dragon is Anachronos in Silithus, but in S&L it clearly states they all have magic in one way or another. jclipps (talk) 04:52, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

They do. All dragons have magical abilities, the blues being the most skilled. The difference is that the blues are inherently tied to arcane magic while the other flights just use it to their needs. Hence, Korialstrasz is one of the most powerful members of the Kirin Tor while being red, not blue, and why Deathwing was able to create the Demon Soul without being the Blue Aspect and enter the Emerald Dream without being the Green Aspect.

As for the gameplay thing, the point is that game mechanics don't equal lore, and I fail to see how that has anything to do with Jclipp's question.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

So would you say that with these rarely mentioned magical abilities (at least in the case of Ysera, Nozdormu, and Alexstraza) that any Aspect is (in terms of arcane, sorcery, etc. and not their own assigned field of power) magically more powerful than any non-Aspect dragon, including consorts like Korialstraz or family members like Balacgos (Malygos' son)? jclipps (talk) 03:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it wouldn't be fair to refer to all the Aspects' powers as magic per se, but yes, the Aspects are by far more powerful than any other dragon, though consorts also tend to be significantly more powerful than the average dragon. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

When the lore refers to dragons as "creatures of magic" then, it is referring specifically to their dragonflight's speciality, not actual magic? I always had the opinion that all dragons have some magic, and some just had more than others (outside the blue flight). For example, I don't think Korialstraz worked up the level he is at now, I believe that he was born with magic, like all dragons, but just had more and fine tuned it over the years, which also means I think he had that power before he became a consort, and Alexstraza just picked him for other reasons. jclipps (talk) 01:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

That's a fair way to look at it, I think.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Not only dragons?

Seeing this preview and reading this part:

"It is here that the remaining aspects -- Alexstrasza, Ysera, Nozdormu, Kalecgos, and Thrall -- have gathered to empower the Dragon Soul -- Azeroth's last chance to stop the great behemoth."

Would this mean that it's possible that an Aspect can be something else than a dragon? --g0urra[T҂C] 06:17, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

That might be possible... though I don't believe we know exactly how the power is transferred... the new earth aspect could be given to that new uncorrupted black dragon prince from badlands they keep talking about... least after Deathwing is killed. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:35, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

It's more likely that it's just badly phrased; Twilight of the Aspects explicitly stated that Thrall is not and can never be an Aspect. They probably MEANT "the remaining aspects and Thrall." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:36, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Deathwing

May I mark him as a former aspect or is it too soon?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 15:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Wait till the final cutscene is released--Ashbear160 (talk) 15:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

It's been released. --g0urra[T҂C] 15:34, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

He is now accessible in-game and hereby considered dead

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 16:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Fate

The final cutscene is not clear:

• "it is the dawn of the age of mortals" no more eternals?
• are dragons aspects no longer titan-imbued?

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 16:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I've looked all around for that cut scene, could you show me the link so I can add it to Deathwing's page?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 16:31, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bYVA0Hh6u3U

The Dragon Aspects are not Dragon Aspects anymore, and just the leaders of their flights.--Ashbear160 (talk) 16:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, and Alexstrasza seems to imply that the Aspects will die soon.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 16:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

No, just that they are mortal. --g0urra[T҂C] 16:47, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

So we should probably put a note that the position of Dragon Aspect no longer exists, because their duty was fulfilled or something like that?--Ashbear160 (talk) 16:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I'd say so, we should add Thrall as well since he was Earth-Warder.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 16:54, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah probably--Ashbear160 (talk) 17:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I feel bad for Kalecgos... he just became an aspect, only to have it taken away in a short amount of time. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Azuregos is pleased.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:07, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

So.. wait a minute... if at the end they lose their powers, doesn't that mean Nozdormu's fate will no longer happen, as in he won't become corrupted and the infinite flight will not come into existence, and that he will probably die in another fashion... Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Yea it's best not to ask questions about the lord of time, but I will say this in End Time his future self was easily slain by 5 adventurers with little effort while Deathwing took an entire raid to defeat. It's possible that his corrupted infinite form was still him and it would explain how he was less powerful. Or maybe a retcon... in the same bloody patch.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:52, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I have an idea on that. In Nozdormu's weakened state the old gods corrupted him and his infinite dragonflight are trying to ensure the aspects retain all of their powers. Thrall helped kill Deathwing so he can't escape Durnholde, Medivh opened the portal allowing the orcs in which allowed for the Thrall to be born on Azeroth, and the Lich King's death by mortal hands made the aspects enlist their help against Deathwing therefore Arthas can't become the Lich King. Him dying by 5 adventures instead of a raid shows how his diminished powers affected him.--Sairez (talk) 23:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I personally don't believe 5,10,20,25,40 man instances should play a part in "how powerful" a character is, when it's just game mechanics. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 23:17, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Probably but we need to look at the world effort to kill Deathwing and the rather small war party to kill Nozdormu shows some kind of difference in power. Im just speculating though.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 23:26, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Remember, he lives, and the infinite dragonflight operate from, a future timeline undone with the fall of deathwing, which marked the point of their un-aspectizing (or something). It's rather likely that, in the new timeline, Murozond will never exist. Plus, he died to 5 adventurers supported by Nozdormu, who reverted time 5 times, therefore practically 5x6=30 people, buffed by an aspect. That means he's more or less on par with the 10/25+plus 5 aspects of deathwing, and even more so with the 10/25+drakes of Malygos. My money on the guess "Rest In Inexistence, Would-Be Aspect Murozond".Xhosant (talk) 18:13, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

This would be my guess, and let me know if someone else was trying to say it but in a different way: the Aspects have now lost their Titan-blessed powers and are mortal. They still retained some of their previous abilities, such as Kalecgos being a very powerful mage, Ysera a strong druid, Alexstraza being a gifted healer, and Nozdormu being able to transverse, but not temper with, the timelines. So, in the case of Nozdormu and Murozond, it's still possible that the Infinite Dragonflight exists somehow (we can't possibly come to a conclusion as to why that would be). I agree that game mechanics should not be representative of how powerful a Warcraft character is (just compare 40 man Illidan to only 25 man Deathwing), but for those of you who are deadset on thinking in these, or similar terms, consider this. It only took 5 people to kill Murozond because he is in his post-Aspect state, a point where he is severely weakened. So, in some unexplainable temporal theorem, Murozond perhaps countered Nozdormu's Aspect magic because (a) when he countered Nozdormu's magic, it was when Murozond was still a fully-fledged Aspect in some timeline where is past-self's powers weren't taken from him (e.g. cause of the End-Time); or (b) because Murozond knew what his past self would try to do, he used what was left of his magic to go back in time and counter Nozdormu. The second option may sound a little bit more far-fetched, but if you consider the fact that getting the jump on the more powerful Nozdormu and setting up a defense that would exactly counter every move the Aspect might make, despite Murozond's weakened state, the scenario is not impossible. Keep in mind that Murozond has retained very powerful temporal magic and knows his past well-enough to be able to stop himself in spite of the ultimate strength difference. These are my best guesses as to how a small five-man team could take out Murozond and how the ex-Aspect would be able to stop his past, more powerful self at the same time. Jclipps (talk) 00:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

So, could someone elaborate on what exactly happened? Did the aspects lose their powers or did they just lose their ability to live forever? If the former, does that mean that there is no real purpose for them anymore and that the remaining dragons have lost their powers as well? If so then how exactly does Nozdormu get the Dragon Soul back to its original place in time? Previously Flame486 03:46, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

They lost their powers and ability to live forever. Nozdormu states with his powers gone the Dragon Soul was automatically sent back to its correct time. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:25, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

So if their main purpose in life was to safeguard Azeroth then how exactly are they doing so if they've lost their powers to preserve it? And why exactly did they need to give up their powers anyways? Previously Flame486 23:12, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Really, what we need is for Blizzard to clarify all of this, because it's an incredibly vague statement -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:42, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

"And why exactly did they need to give up their powers anyways?" Otherwise Deathwing would have destroyed Azeroth. It took all of their power to destroy him. --g0urra[T҂C] 23:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thrall

While he filled in for the Earth Warder, there's nothing to suggest he ever became a Dragon Aspect, even for that brief moment. Twilight of the Aspects even says he could never be a Dragon Aspect, and Charge of the Aspects seems to support this, even when he's asked to help them out. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree, Deathwing still maintained his Aspect power till the bitter end. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:03, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thrall is called the Earth-Warder. Though it's not exactly the same as being a DRAGON aspect. It's a very strange position  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:09, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thrall was never an Aspect. He held a amount of the power of the Earth Warden for like 2minutes, but he was never an immortal creature, leader of a dragonflight, blessed by the Titans and all the other criterias needed for that position. Please remove him from that list again.--LemonBaby (talk) 22:16, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thrall held that power for more than 2 minutes it started when he was split across the planes, accordying to charge of the aspects.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

His powers as a shaman and his connection to the earth had been growing since then, but that doesn't mean he became the Earth-Warder back then, or that he was ever a Dragon Aspect. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

So your saying he just held the title, that seems pointless? Kalecgos wasn't blessed with the power but he was an aspect. How long Thrall was an aspect or not none of them are aspects now so he should stay if he was the Earth-Warder.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:25, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Kalecgos went through some kind of ritual to gain the powers, Thrall never did that, as Deathwing was still alive. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:29, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Then why is he named Earth-Warder?  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:33, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

It's implied that him being split by the elements was kinda the thing that made him the earthwarder... and then there's the whole deathwing transfering him the burden of the earthwareder for a while in the charge of the aspects, he even says that the other aspects are trying to replace him with thrall.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:35, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

We can also see evidence in the final cutscene... all the aspects' eyes glow, Thrall's does not. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:38, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Looks like we need to call this a lore mistake.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:43, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

First of all: Thrall cannot be a Dragon Aspect. The only thing he could become in theory would be an Orc Aspect. Next thing: He was never the holder of the earth. He was a vessel so imbue the Dragon Soul with the power of earth, but he never held it. Deathwing gave him once for a brief moment the feeling, the burden of beeing a the Earth Warden. But he gave not his power to Thrall. And Thrall didn't feel that burden afterwards. All the Aspects felt their power was gone and Thrall didn't even noticed a difference until Alex told him so. Because he never held the power. So please romove him or put ihm in a speculation section.--LemonBaby (talk) 22:45, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Tell me this was he or not called the Earth-Warder in any part of the game?--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:49, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Who called Thrall the Earth-Warder? Calling someone Earth Warder doesn't mean you are a Dragon Aspect.--LemonBaby (talk) 22:55, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

" Thrall, now the Earth-Warder of Azeroth, blesses all tanks with the immovable strength of the ancient stones of the world. Reduces defensive cooldowns by 50% and increases defensive ability durations by 100%"  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:53, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Just like I said: There are a lot of criterias needed to be a Dragon Aspect and Thrall didn't fullfill any of them. It was stated several times that he will never become an Aspect. And calling him Earth Warden doesn't mean he is a Dragon Aspect. If you wish: Create an article about the Earth Warden and add Thrall to the list.--LemonBaby (talk) 23:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Thrall is unique. The most powerful mortal shaman. Perhaps Earth-Warder is simply a title of respect.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 23:05, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Throwing this out here

"Just reached Ultraxion for the first time, Thrall calls himself an Aspect. There's not empowerment, he just says "We the aspects will empower the dragon soul, you must protect us" and channels the Earth-Warder's power.

Edit: Thrall's on click text says they are "The Great Aspects of Azeroth", probably to account for him not being a dragon."

So i'm starting to think this article should be renamed... and thrall added to it...--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Sounds perfect. We could name it Great Aspects or Aspects of Azeroth.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 02:40, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I hate it when blizzard is this subtle--Ashbear160 (talk) 12:01, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5427/wowscrnshot120411212525.jpg http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1230/wowscrnshot120411212506.jpg

Actually it doesn' say "We the aspects will empower the dragon soul". Where did you read that? He only said that he need to imbue the Dragon Soul with the power of the Aspects. I don't need to be gold to imbue something with gold. So no, this is no source for Thrall beeing an Aspect.--LemonBaby (talk) 16:26, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Titans

I wonder if this is the event that will gain the Titans attention making them return soonish for likely the last expansion... RotT, - The Return of the Titans. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Aman'thul is a douche.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Path of the Titans would probably have made them more involved and likely appear. But it was scrapped for more Blizzard Store Pets, likely.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 22:27, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

It was scrapped because of balance issues and because it wasn't much different than additional glyphs. Please leave your conspiracy theories elsewhere. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:18, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I know... I was kidding.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 02:21, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Nozdormu

What do we say about Nozdormu? As he has been 'killed' by Adventurers now, but since we've already done that it's unlikely we'll actually see him fall to madness now and become Murozond. --Illidarí (talk) 06:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

We say nothing, I think, since Nozdormu hasn't been killed yet. Murozond has, but we don't know if he was still Aspect of Time, or if that will even still happen now that we've changed the future. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:09, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Current powers of the aspects

So, as the Aspects have now completed their battle against Deathwing, exactly how powerful are they? I would assume they can be killed more simply as mortals, but what about their actual abilities and/or strength? Would they be more akin to a strong dragon now, or still maintain somewhat of a higher status of power? And can they still transform between dragon and human, or are they now forced to remain humanoid? --WolfSage (talk) 03:20, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

The transformation between dragon and humanoid form is not an Aspect only ability, most if not all dragonkin seem to have it. As for the rest of your questions, we don't know, cause the lore stops there. But I'd assume they are still powerful, just not as powerful as they once were. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 04:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, sorry, I wasn't really certain. For some reason I got the idea that losing their Dragon Aspect status would cost them their Dragon status as well... stupid thought, ah well. -- WolfSage (talk) 04:26, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Kalecgos prior to his ascension is a good demonstration of their current power. We can also assume that even without their aspect abilities Ysera is a druid Kalecgos is a mage Nozdormu is a cromomancer and Alexstrasza has the power to... give birth I suppose. And Ysera is now likely on par with Malfurion in terms of druidism power. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MoneygruberTheGoblin (talk · contr).

However, Nozdormu lost his ability to control time. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:58, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Do other bronze dragons have the ability to control time? Or do they just "time travel"?--LemonBaby (talk) 22:39, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

That's a good question, cause it seems they are capable of traveling through time on their own (like Chromie), but Noz states he sends them places (in the Charge of the Aspects short story), but then if that were true, how was the bronze flight able to travel when Noz was missing. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:54, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Bringing time into things never makes sense.  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 00:46, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe he "sent" them in the same meaning of "send" as when I send you to the store to buy groceries while I do something else. So, I'm not transporting you there, but I tell you to go there. I find it much more interesting whether or not they and their flights still have their abilities, and if they can do things like travel in time or send players through time. Should CoT be closed down? --Oponyxal (talk) 18:49, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

It does make me wonder what they'll do now that they no longer have a duty (since it's been fulfilled)... we'll likely not see any new CoT instances... at least none that involve traveling through time, they could use the place in a similar fashion for the Hour of Twilight and Dragon Soul... instances during the same time period that involve currently active zones. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:39, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, that's a shame. There are still plenty of old campaigns and storylines that could have made awesome dungeons if revisited through CoT. But the Emerald Dream will still be there, even though Ysera doesn't hold the same power - though she did say (according to Knaak) that Malfurion was stronger there than she was. With Thrall being an almost Earth Warder, it makes me think - perhaps mortals are becoming new aspects? Thrall takes over after Neltharion, Malfurion after Ysera, someone (Krasus?) after Kalecgos, and someone else after Alexstrasza and Nozdormu. Could happen, but it's not likely... But perhaps we'll se Emerald Dream dungeones instead of new CoT ones? --Oponyxal (talk) 21:55, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

It would have been nice to do some Emerald Dream places... but didn't that novel take care of the storyline there, but who knows... anything can happen. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:02, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I hate when major charecters die or major organizations are just killed off in novels. As for Mortal Aspects, it sounds possible when the titans return.

Ysera: Malfurion

Deathwing: Go'el

Malygos: Jaina

Nozdormu: Rhonin

Alexstrasza: Im not sure who else could handle the amazing aspect power of giving birth. Sylvanas!  High Warlord MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe (talk contribs) 02:28, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Nah, Sylvanas would be the 'death-binder' for obvious reasons. The Dragon Aspects will probably be reduced to, lets say their consort's power level as the consorts are still considered to be normal dragons. --Illidarí (talk) 06:53, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

"Combined all five of the Aspects represented a force capable of defeating the elder beings" So mortals now or in the future have that power? or we hope that one of them doesn't wake up soon? TherasTaneel (talk) 16:29, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Retcon vs. flavor lore

Retcon isn't the same thing as a flavor lore. It is canon because there are two versions of an event which are a part of Warcraft's world. --Mordecay (talk) 21:51, 1 September 2015 (UTC)