Talk:The New Horde

Before anyone says "there are other veteran clan chieftains to support Thrall" besides Kargath and Kilrogg, I'll go over the clans and chieftains from the lore back then.

• Stormreaver clan's Gul'dan: Dead and an enemy to Thrall.
• Twilight's Hammer clan's Cho'gall: Basically the same as Stormreaver clan.
• Black Tooth Grin clan's Rend and Maim: Always been an enemy to Thrall and the New Horde.
• Dragonmaw clan's Zuluhed the Whacked: Even before Burning Crusade's retcon, the Dragonmaw clan never joined the Horde, with Nek'rosh Skullcrusher's faction seemingly being the only one.
• Burning Blade clan's chieftain: They have zero chieftains whatsoever.
• Shadowmoon clan's Ner'zhul: This is obvious.
• Laughing Skull clan's Mogor: Never left Draenor.
• Thunderlord clan's Fenris Wolfbrother: Killed by Shadowmoon in WC2 and never made it to Azeroth.
• Bonechewer clan's Tagar Spinebreaker: Also killed in WC2 and again, never made it to Azeroth.

So its very clear the book is referring to Grom, Kargath and Kilrogg as "many veteran chieftains". Gann Stonespire (talk) 04:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

imo this is venturing way too far into "original research" territory. wowpedia is certainly a lot more lenient on that kind of thing than wikipedia, but i feel it's not our place to decide what such a vaguely-worded sentence meant. even if it does seem obvious. Eithris (talk) 04:42, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

We should at least note that in the current lore, only Grom Hellscream was the only Chieftain that could've supported Thrall. There can be speculation section noting the "many veteran chieftains" could've been referring to Kilrogg and Kargath whom were alive and on Azeroth at that point. Remember those books still mention the Eredar corrupted Sargeras. Gann Stonespire (talk) 04:44, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

yes, i left the part about grom in and asked for citations. we can't just say "in this book and this expansion"--we need the numbers and names of chapters and quests that show him being the only chieftain. readers and other editors need to be able to look up what a page is talking about to verify it for themselves.

i'm unsure which books you're talking about. but sure, a speculation section sounds fine. Eithris (talk) 04:51, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

I can give you section of Kilrogg's death and Kargath never leaving Draenor. I'll also note on a speculation section on the Kargath and Kilrogg pages.

This ingame book. Though apparently they updated it in 2022, 15 years after the Burning Crusade's release! Gann Stonespire (talk) 04:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

i'm talking about citing where TBC and BtDP show that grom is the only warchief around. i mean, the stuff about kilrogg and kargath should be cited too--everything should be cited, always--but the one thing that's not in a speculation section needs citing the most. Eithris (talk) 05:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)