Talk:Kel'Thuzad

war section

Anyone notice how in the "After the War" section, there's a spot with five lines all beginning with Kel'Thuzad? Not that there's anything wrong with it, but it just look really odd. Maybe a bit of rewording could fix that. Pzychotix 03:04, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Kel'Thuzad in Caverns of Time

From leaked screenshots of TBC it appears that players can meet young Kel'Thuzad during first adventure into Caverns of Time. He stands around in Southshore. Any idea what is he doing there? --Potbasher 09:47, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Oh, could really well be. From what I've seen, there are talks about the Ashbringer being made in Tarren Mill by Turalyon, Morgraine and Co... The whole place is just one big "Got leet lore? Put it here!" -instance. I'll try to check on Kel'Thuzad for you, though. It's probably when he was still human (like in Road to Damnation). --Tinkerer 09:53, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

He spoke to Hecular about Necromancy in the CoT. I suppose one of his hiding places to practice necromancy would be in the Hillsbrad area. The Yeti cave in Hillsbrad is originally used by Hecular for Necromatic rituals. Kel'Thuzad was probably in the area to avoid Dalarani sentries in order to experiment with banned magics. --Invin Dranoel 13:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Gag Quotes

Are those fanmade, or from WC3?--Ragestorm 16:46, 2 November 2006 (EST)

They were the extra unit sounds Kel'Thuzad made in Warcraft III. Although I don't get the "I shall await my eternal reward" reference, so I'm not sure if that's a gag quote or not. User:Montag/sig 19:34, 14 November 2006 (EST)

It's safe to assume that one's real. Liches are almost immortal. --Ragestorm 20:12, 14 November 2006 (EST)

I know it's real. I just don't know what it's a reference to, or what the joke is in order to include it with the gags. ::Reads up on pop culture.:: User:Montag/sig 20:41, 14 November 2006 (EST)

No, I mean I think it was one of his actual lines. If you were a necromancer worshipping the king of undeath, doesn't that sound like the sort of thing you'd say?--Ragestorm 20:43, 14 November 2006 (EST)

It might've been both a unit sound and a cinematic line. Blizzard sometimes did that. It's a good excuse to play that campaign again. User:Montag/sig 15:55, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Undead Lich

Ragestorm is right of course. It is redundant. When you discuss a lich, its automatically known its undead, LOL.Baggins 13:04, 8 December 2006 (EST)

::Chuckles.:: Yes, this is true. Looks fine now. User:Montag/sig 17:21, 8 December 2006 (EST)

Arthas?

Arthas is not, has never been, and never will be a relative of Kel'Thuzad.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 08:58, 26 December 2006 (EST)

Inspiration

Some of you may have heard of this guy, some may not have. I learned in sociology class that in the late 1800's and early 1900's there was a man named Aleister Crowley who delved into magic and the occult, was a member of a "magical" order in England, and then broke away and founded his own mystical cult known as Thelema. He was known for his obsession with the supernatural, his heavy heroin use, and the bizarre rituals he would perform both in public and in seclusion. He also claimed to hear voices which told him that he was to be the prophet of a new magical Eon. Other than the drugs (as far as Metzen has revealed) doesn't this guy sound a bit like Kel'thuzad?--Julzwinfield 6:53 21 August 2007 (EST)

No, just the generic cultist.--SWM2448 23:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Picture

Just wondering if there's any confirmation stating that picture is actually Kel'Thuzad and not a random lich. Naturally when I first saw it I assumed it was him, like I assumed the human was Arthas and the elf was Tyrande, but the orc is just a random orc(doesn't look a thing like Grom or Thrall, and who else is it going to be?), so I was wondering if there is an offical source saying that is Kel'Thuzad?

Fusion With Teranes

It would be a nice plot element to find out that Kel'thuzard and Teranes have actualy fused soles (as well as with Arthas' urine). Since they both share the same urn (A possible gag quote is "I'd never thought I would live to see the day I would be ruled by my own son... And I was right")

Someone please respon to the post ): --The last Alterac 10:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

I know it's said -Be polite- but: You, sweetcheeks, are a fudging idiot...Can't you for once stop spamming discussions?!--Maibe 15:56, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

The Last Alterac, can you please stop posting rubbish spam like this? This is not what talk pages are for, and to quote Ragestorm, THIS IS NOT A FORUM!!!

Good day, Warchiefthrall 21:41, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Rubish like what? My second post or my first??? I fail to see the second one as it is more of an attention seeking thing but the 1st post was A FUCKING THEORY.--The last Alterac 07:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The talk pages aren't a place for completely out of left field theories. They're for discussing changes to the article. And, in general, unless it's heavily supported by existing lore (and this definitely isn't), theories are not included in articles. -- Dark T Zeratul 08:22, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

And as Dark T says, talk pages are not for theories. And, if you don't mind, can you please tone down the cursing? Children read this, you know. Warchiefthrall 16:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I in thought talk pages people were aloud to post theories. Wasn't the urn Kelthuzard uses as a way to contain himself (or something like that.) contain King Teranas the Second's ashes? (And alright I'll turn down my swearing) --The last Alterac 08:30, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• Each article has a Talk page — click on the article's discussion link at the top of the page — for questions, reporting vandalism or discussions on the article. From Here. You aren't discussing the article, you are making random theories up, that isn't what talk pages are for. Nabudis 08:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

He's not even making up theories, if you take it precisely...He's just spamming--Maibe 13:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not spamming. I have not made a single refference besides the following sentence ABOUT A RESTRAUNT CHAIN.--The last Alterac 00:18, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

His Return

I know that he would return I just know it. Liches can ressurect themselves right? The psy whatever (urn for short) that contains him is lost. A Scourge member might of got it and has bringed it to Arthas and Kel'Thuzad must be revived TNK 18:33, 1 July 2008 (UTC)worldtaker

Do you mean a phylactery? Warden Shadowsong (talk) 18:44, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Tes phylactery thanks for refreshing my memory TNK 19:05, 1 July 2008 (UTC)worldtaker

Necromancer Epic Necromancer or both?

While i was fixing up the campaign map descriptions it dawned on me, what should i list kel'thuzad as in the forces? Necromancer? His name? or Epic Necromancer? While yeah he's a necromancer all of the epic necromancers were at first, shouldnt Kel'thuzad be classified as Epic Necromancer as well? or Arch Necromancer? For now he's listed as Kel'thuzad but im not sure if its alright listed as just that.--You know im seriously 1337 now. ^{{T1337 to the extreme.•CThe dragon protects me...that and my MG 30 glock of course..)} 00:05, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Voice actor

About the edit of User:SDKPhoenix, he put that Kel'thuzad has a new unknown voice actor. I'm really sure that in World of Warcraft, Warcraft III RoC and TFT was the same. Or his voice actor was changed in Wrath of the Lich King? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 04:42, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

In Reign of Chaos, the Frozen Throne, and World of Warcraft (Naxxramas-60) he was voiced by Michael McConnohie. In Wrath of the Lich King (Naxxramas-80) he is voiced by someone different (even though almost all of his lines are the same). Egrem (talk) 20:46, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah he got a new voice actor. Listen to him in Warcraft 3 or his original incarnation in WoW, and then go to new Naxx and listen to him. The quotes are the same, but by a different person.

He's also a lot more difficult to understand. If it wasn't for the text I wouldn't have a clue what he was saying. Heljak (talk) 13:05, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

This is very strange, why would blizzard change the voice actor and then put the same quotes...they could have recycled the sound. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Main Saying

Anyone know why he always says "Your curiosity will be the death of you"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TichondriusLives (talk · contr).

That's basically because if you are curious enough to enter in Naxxramas (the old one of course :p ), you'd probably be dead very soon. Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk) 23:38, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

It was also one of his first lines in RoC, it's his catchphrase. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

On top of that, it's also a throwback to one of Blizzard's older games: in Diablo, a mage called Zhar the Mad is studying in the labyrinth beneath the Tristram cathedral, and says this line when you try to take something from his bookshelf.LordaeronArkham (talk) 18:55, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Independant

I know but I am not sure why they put it. Maybe it is because he controls the Scourge army in the Plaguelands? "When Arthas was called to Northrend to defend the Frozen Throne, Kel'Thuzad was left to oversee the Lich King's army and the newly formed Plaguelands of the Scourge. KelThuzad is perhaps the second most powerful undead entity in the world." This is what it says under his name, "Medium Undead (Independent)". I compared that with others like Kael, "Medium Humanoid (Blood Elf)", and so it seemed like it meant he was "Independent Undead" at the same time as being part of the "Scourge". Rolandius (talk - contr) 06:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

First Paragraph wrong?

In the first paragraph, it says that Kel'Thuzad is now in Dragonblight. But I just walked past him in Borean Tundra. Is he in two places at once? Sean0michael (talk) 15:47, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Borean Toundra is only a projection it seems. Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 16:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

No, it's the real Kel'Thuzad: the story progresses with you first arriving in the Borean Tundra and finding out that Kel'Thuzad is back, and then in Dragonblight you see that Naxxramas is now in Northrend, and Kel'Thuzad is in it. It's like the same with Ymiron first being awakened in Howling Fjord, then later on is the last boss in Utgarde Pinnacle. --g0urra[T҂C] 16:46, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Death in WOTLK

Do Kel'Thuzad die when players kill him in Naxxramas in WOTLK, or do he get ressurected by his phylactery again, like in classic WoW? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marzillius (talk · contr).

He doesn't drop his phylactery if that's what you mean, but the undead seem to be notoriously difficult to permanently destroy. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:37, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

"Baby Lich"?

I was looking through the ModelViewer and noticed a model called "Baby Lich" which seems to be a, I guess you could say "Chibi" version of Kel'Thuzard, albeit more detailed. Anything significant? Future pet or something? Mykael Mourningsun (talk) 10:50, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

The Lich King got desperate. --Super Bhaal (talk) 16:56, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

MMO datamined a pet called "Lil' KT," but no info on where it comes from. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:17, October 14, 2009 (UTC)

Staying "Alive"

If you buy the Lil'_K.T. pet, you get a letter from Kel'Thuzad himself, where he mentions both instances (no pun intended, honestly) of Naxxramas. I don't know if letters such as these are canon or not, but if they are, surely that is proof that his defeat in Naxxramas wasn't permanent. Xavius, the Satyr Lord 17:16, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Warlock

Kel'Thuzad has given his name to the Tier 9 Alliance Warlock-set (Kel'Thuzad's Regalia), which puzzles me. Has he ever been a Warlock?--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 16:56, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

Not TECHNICALLY, although I suppose summoning the entire upper echelons of the Burning Legion into Azeroth is close enough for the set name. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:58, November 18, 2009 (UTC)

You're right. Summoning a powerful demonic entity as Archimonde sure would take some Warlock-skills, I suppose.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 17:16, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers for 3.3

Can someone tell me why there's a mention of what happens after Arthas dies in an article about Kel'thuzad? If it absolutely has to be there, put it under a spoiler tag or something, cause you just spoiled the ending for me. Bloodfyr (talk) 20:59, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

removed it, don't think KT is even relevant anymore and the phylactery should be destroyed for good. --Hurax (talk) 19:37, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

IPA Transcription

I take issue with the IPA transcription of Kel'Thuzad's name on the page (/'kɛlθʔzɑːd/). From listening to him say his own name in WCIII, it sounds more like [ˌkɛlθʊˈzɑːd] or [ˌkɛlθəˈzɑːd]. I don't hear any glottal stop, and there definitely needs to be another vowel. Primary stress definitely sounds like it's on the final syllable, with secondary stress on the first. I don't know how to pull out the sound file and look at it in Praat, though, so I can't say for sure I've got it right, but it sure isn't as it stands. Also, I don't know if the /ɑ/ is long phonemically, not knowing much about the in-game language his name comes from.Xtiandeth (talk) 00:11, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Name

His name sounds rather elven does it not?  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 20:36, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Keep it relevant to editing the page.--SWM2448 21:27, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Is his name supposed to be Kel'Thuzad or Kel'thuzad? The main article expresses it at Kel'Thuzad, but I've seen many more instances of it called Kel'thuzad. Flame484 (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The "Thuzad" is capitalized, unlike say the "dan" in Gul'dan.--SWM2448 19:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Where is it spelled Kel'thuzad? --g0urra[T҂C] 19:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Road to Damnation?

So is the "Call of the Lich King" (w3 manual) shortened version (or something similar) to this short story? --Mordecay (talk) 19:15, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

It's a lot different. You get to see how Kel'Thuzad was instructed in bringing the Plague to Lordaeron, and his initial reaction to the horrifying things he'd be working with. SCARY WIZARD (talk) 05:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

As Warlock?

Road to Damnation doesn't say that he was a warlock. He's merely stating his desire to learn and counter the magics the orc warlocks wielded. However, the only magic of theirs that he studied was necromancy by experimenting on rats, as Antonidas notes being in Kel'Thuzad's journals. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

And Kel'Thuzad was doing the necromancy as an arcane art. He wasn't wielding the warlocks' magic, he was emulating their necromancy. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 21:22, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

• Although Arcane magic can "bend" other energies such as Fel and Elemental energies, there is absolutely no proof that Kel'Thuzad was using Arcane magics to raise the dead, however likely it would seem (given he was a Mage). Fel and Shadow magic has been shown to reanimate the dead, and as stated by Justin Parker, Warlocks and Necromancers have overlapping abilities, and Kel'Thuzad is a Necromancer, hence he is also a Warlock. When did people conceive this notion that you have to be a master of Necromancy or Fel magic in order to be called a Necromancer or Warlock?

• The quote I provided had Kel'Thuzad state that he has an obligation to learn how to wield these magics (necromantic magics) wielded by the Warlocks, ergo, Kel'Thuzad was experimenting in Necromancy, experimenting with the magic Warlocks use.

• And this has been discussed already. Necromancy is a school of magic, not a magic independent of Fel, Arcane, or Void magics. Ergo, Necromancer isn't a class separate from the Warlock, Mage, or Shadow Priest class. Kel'Thuzad didn't stop becoming a Mage or an Archmage just because he started dabbling in a school of the Arcane (Necromancy), that's like stating Jaina isn't a Mage because she uses Conjuration, which is also a school of the Arcane like Necromancy.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 23:13, 24 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Kel'Thuzad is specifically cited in the Kirin Tor's book about Arcane necromancy. He wasn't using warlock magic, he was emulating it with a mage discipline. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 23:26, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

• The Kirin Tor's book about Arcane necromancy does not mention that he used Arcane to raise the dead, it just states he is an example of a modern day Necromancer and he helped contributed to the spread of the Plague, which was indeed Fel. The book about Arcane necromancy book isn't specific and doesn't mention that Fel or Void magic can be used to raise the dead, ergo Necromancy isn't just a school of the Arcane. The modern Scourge Necromancers were also shown using Shadow (Void) magic to raise dead, not Arcane, and they were also shown using Fel magic. And Gul'dan's lesser Warlocks used Arcane magic to raise the dead, they were not Mages, they were Warlocks.

• Kel'Thuzad was able to manipulate a magical plague that was Fel

• Kel'Thuzad was able to summon Archimonde, something a lesser or average Warlock wouldn't be able to do

• Necromancers have overlapping abilities with Warlocks, ergo Necromancers are Warlocks.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 23:49, 24 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Necromancers and warlocks have some overlapping abilities, but not all necromancers are warlocks and not all warlocks are necromancers. Kel'Thuzad never displayed the ability to summon any sort of demon (much less a demon lord) until after he studied Medivh's spellbook. Egrem (talk) 01:16, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

• Don't reply to me if you're going to ignore facts I'm presenting to you. And stop treating Necromancers as a separate class, because it's not. Necromancy is a school of magic according to canon, ergo Necromancer is a sub-class, not a class independent of the Warlock, Mage, or Shadow Priest class. To state that Necromancer is a separate class from Mage, Warlock, or Shadow Priest is to state Jaina is a Conjurer and not a Mage because Conjuration is a school of magic like Necromancy. Necromancers and Warlocks have overlapping abilities therefore Warlocks study Necromancy and use Necromantic magics, ergo they're Necromancers. Necromancers study Fel magic and use Fel magic, therefore they're Warlocks, how many damn times to I have to post this in order for the message to click? Where is your source stating someone has to be a master of Fel magic or Necromancy in order to be a Warlock or a Necromancer? Warlocks and Necromancers have overlapping abilities, so regardless if Warlocks are novices in the art of Necromancy, they are still Necromancers. Kel'Thuzad was considered a Necromancer when he was a novice, ergo Warlocks are Necromancers, albeit novices. And the book about Arcane necromancy states "Masters of this tainted field can harness shadows into bolts of incendiary energy, implying that Warlocks are masters of "tainted field" VisionOfPerfection (talk) 01:53, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

This is literally the exact same discussion as Talk:Warlock. Please do not spill it over into multiple other pages. I also encourage you to both a) look at and consider other peoples' points of view, and b) stop being hostile to everyone else. We are not ignoring you; everyone simply disagrees with you. That's a very critical difference, and amicable discussion is not served by telling people that they're writing garbage, that they're incapable of reading, that they're incoherent, or that they're trolling. Consider this a warning; you've already been banned once, and I would prefer not to have to do it again. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:01, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

This is the same discussion we had on the Warlock page, yes, however, I'm not spilling the discussion into multiple pages without cause. I wasn't the one who initiated this discussion either. It's clear that people are ignoring me because you people still don't get it, ergo, you're not reading my points attentively and I'm being presented with answers that don't disprove my points what-so-ever. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what makes a Necromancer a Necromancer, and I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why all Warlocks aren't Necromancers. People keep on bringing up the same points over and over again, and their points prove nothing, while my points are supported by multiple sources proving that Warlocks are Necromancers.VisionOfPerfection (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)Vision Of Perfection

If you want to have a serious discussion/debate then read all of my points carefully then try to disprove them coherently (one by one).

__________________________________________________________________________

• In order to reanimate the dead a soul must be attached to a corpse. Gul'dan's Necrolyte, Rakmar, agreed that summoning (attaching) souls into corpses would reanimate those corpses.

• Warlocks use Soul Shards and can drain souls and manipulate those souls as he/she sees fit, ergo they can instill (summon, attach) souls into corpses and reanimate them.

• You don't have to be a master in Necromancy or Fel magic in order to be called a Necromancer or a Warlock

• A Necromancer is someone who studies and uses Necromancy. Since Warlocks have overlapping abilities with Necromancers, they study and use Necromancy. VisionOfPerfection (talk) 02:29, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

We're all humans, we all make mistakes and we don't have all the answers, including Lore Historians. As fans of the lore, it is imperative that we challenge Lore Historians who come up with a ruling without checking every available source for information. People have this notion that the Plague wasn't Fel because Loreology stated that the Plague wasn't entropic. https://mobile.twitter.com/Loreology/status/331838399524794368

I reread RoTLK and caught that Jaina and Arthas speculated that the Plague of Undeath carried Fel energy because it sapped life from its victims like how the Fel energy sapped life on Draenor and the Blast Lands, and I also caught the victims of the Plague limned with a sickly, Green glow, characteristic of something tainted with demonic energies, therefore Loreology was wrong, and I just had to edit the Plague of Undeath's page for everyone's benefit. There is an evident flaw in Justin Parker's statement, and so you have to challenge him, not just accept his statement and move on. VisionOfPerfection (talk) 03:20, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

It is not Wowpedia's stance to "challenge" Blizzard employees that we think are wrong. We report the lore as it has been given, and - your interpretation aside - the lore is that warlocks and necromancers are different classes that use different forms of magic that occasionally overlap in form and function (and since you are literally the only person arguing this, perhaps you should take your own advice that we are all human, and consider that it is you who has made a mistake and does not know all the answers).

Finally, please keep the discussion on this page limited to whether or not Kel'Thuzad specifically is a warlock, NOT whether all warlocks are also necromancers and vice-versa - that discussion has already been going on at Talk:Warlock, and it's best for everyone if it remains there rather than spilling out into other pages. For instance, the specific points you raised above have been addressed there. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:26, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Conversation regarding all warlocks being necromancers should take place at Talk:Warlock. Unless it applies specifically to Kel'Thuzad himself, it does not belong here. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 16:42, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

• It's a fact established by Justin Parker that Necromancers seek to understand Fel-based magic and it's a fact that Necromancers use Fel magic, hence the overlap in abilities.

• It's a fact established by Blizzard that even a novice/journeyman in the art of Fel magic is called a Warlock.

• ^Those are the only points I need to prove that Kel'Thuzad was a Warlock. If Kel'Thuzad is a Necromancer, he is a Warlock. VisionOfPerfection (talk) 16:51, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

You are still arguing that necromancers are warlocks, not that Kel'Thuzad specifically is one. This is exactly the same argument that you started on Talk:Warlock. Moving this argument to a different page does nothing but make it impossible to follow the discussion. I don't care that you think it's relevant here because Kel'Thuzad is a necromancer. Unless you have some source that claims that KEL'THUZAD SPECIFICALLY is a warlock - NOT NECROMANCERS IN GENERAL - it belongs on Talk:Warlock, where this exact same discussion has been going on. Not here. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:05, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

As far as Kel'Thuzad goes... he brought up a line from Road to Damnation, where Kel'Thuzad tries to defend his interest in what Antonidas calls "evil magic" by saying, "Say what you like about the orcs; their warlocks wielded great power. Power against which we had precious little defense. We have an obligation: we must learn to wield and counter these magics." By that point, Kel'Thuzad was already practicing necromancy (although he wasn't very good at it, as he'd yet to learn anything from Ner'zhul). Is that, in and of itself, sufficient evidence to call Kel'Thuzad a warlock? Egrem (talk) 19:12, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so. He believes that they need to learn fel magic to counter the warlocks, but it doesn't say he actually did so himself. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:28, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

Kel'Thuzad believes they (including himself) need to learn how to wield and counter the warlocks' magic, then Antonidos stated something like " by raising an army of undead rats?" implying that raising rats into Undeath (Necromancy) is "Warlock" magicVisionOfPerfection (talk) 22:18, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Perhaps Blizzard made a mistake and meant for Kel'Thuzad to state, "Say what you want about the orcs; their necromancers wielded great power. Power against which we had precious little defense. We have an obligation: we must learn to wield and counter these magics."

Why would Kel'Thuzad experiment in Necromancy in an attempt to learn the power the Warlocks wielded? Warlocks dabble in Necromancy, period, and so Kel'Thuzad studied the power the Warlocks wielded. No where in that quote shows Kel'Thuzad expressing a desire to wield Fel magic, he expressed a desire to wield the magic the Warlocks wielded which includes Necromancy (Void), not only Fel.

Warlocks don't just wield Fel magic, they also wield Void magic, and some Warlocks focuses more on Void magic, so Void (Shadow) magic can also be considered Warlock magic, for instance, Teron Gorefiend (as a death knight) used a Void spell to attack a guard, then another guard called out "dark magic! Kill the Warlocks before they can afflict any more of us" If Shadow magic isn't considered Warlock magic then Blizzard has made a mistake giving Warlocks the ability to wield Void (Shadow) magic in-lore and in-game, and if Warlocks aren't Necromancers then Blizzard has made a mistake giving Warlocks the ability to wield Shadow magic, create Soulstones, and raise the dead, and if Necromancers aren't Warlocks then Blizzard has made a mistake giving them the ability to use Fel magic. Kel'Thuzad was a Warlock, Warlock magic isn't necessarily Fel. If Warlock magic is just Fel and not Shadow then Blizzard has done a poor job representing our class accurately in the game, making our first ability a Necromancer ability, which is a "non-Warlock" ability (Shadow Bolt) VisionOfPerfection (talk) 22:54, 25 August 2014 (UTC)VisionOfPerfection

Seriously, can we go fucking anywhere without having to read that schlock? Xporc (talk) 15:31, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

I honestly think we should remove or archive VoP's "conversations". They are just blotting the talk pages and serve no purpose.

Also he is apparently back on Twitter calling Metzen a liar, so MisterCrow from SoL tried to redirect VoP's focus on himself. -- MyMindWontQuiet 15:59, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Blogs

Are Hearthstone blogs a canon source ? https://wow.gamepedia.com/index.php?title=Kel%27Thuzad&diff=prev&oldid=4593163 -- MyMindWontQuiet 14:22, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

U mean HotS, and I don't think this was directly stated, but a HS blog is used as a reference on Uther page, and HotS on Samuro's page. --Mordecay (talk) 14:25, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

The conceit of HotS is that these are the normal characters (minus various skins), but ripped out of their franchise universes and dumped into the Nexus. The character bios should still be canon. Brightwing's HotS bio is used as a source on faerie dragon and Brightwing. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 15:11, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I was thinking, though they're still different teams. I believe Deathwing too uses a Hearthstone blog. -- MyMindWontQuiet 15:56, 12 September 2017 (UTC)