Talk:Farraki tribe

Sand trolls

Shouldn't it be changed to "Sand troll" and "Sandfury tribe"? It says in the Troll Compendium that there is a category called Sand trolls, and that the Sandfury tribe is one of the known tribes. This is important especially with the Dark troll getting its own page when there is only one tribe known, and the Troll Compendium saying Dark troll is seen as a fifth category by only some authorities.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 06:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

At one point not terribly long ago, it was set up like that. It was changed as some lore suggested that since the sandfury tribe was the only known tribe of sand trolls, that sandfury was as good a racial designation as anything. Presumabely there are other races of dark trolls, but its a lot easier to hide in dense forest than it is in open desert.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 07:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Its a publishing history thing too, to start out it was the "Desert trolls", then it became "sand trolls" in the Compendium, and then Monster Guide which was published later reduced it to "Sandfury trolls" since it was the only clan. The most recent info for dark trolls is the troll compendium in constrast.Baggins (talk) 07:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

RPG has since been declared non-canon. WoW Magazine Vol 2, Issue 1 (published in 2011) shows the classification going "Sand trolls->Sand Fury" ([http://i.imgur.com/qAlb9A3.jpg link). This backs up the classification given in the Troll Compendium. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 18:33, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Then we should have "Sand troll" and "Sandfury tribe" pages. Cemotucu (talk contribs) 20:14, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

While not forgetting that "Farraki" is a recent and ill-defined term.--SWM2448 20:25, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Loreology said "Farraki" is just another name for the Sandfury (link). --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 20:39, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Obviously. They still made it up to label their Mists of Pandaria appearances.--SWM2448 20:52, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I reorganized some of the content, pulling all the "race" information into its own section. There's really not very much of it, which means a) this article is primarily about the tribe and does not need to be moved to the "sand troll" page, which is the name of a race, and b) I don't think "sand troll" has enough content to really need its own page anyway. Having them on the same page also helps clarify the difference between tribe and race to readers who have been thrown off by Blizzard's sometimes-confusing use of the terms. - jerodast (talk) 19:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

IMO if not splitting to separate pages, "Sand troll" should be the main page with "Sandfury tribe" as a subsection. It's less clunky since technically sand troll is above Sandfury in hierarchy. The Troll Compendium has Sandfury as a subsection on the Sand troll pages. And the WoW Magazine has Sand Troll pointing to Sand Fury. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 00:01, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Hm, I would say that might be more hierarchically "proper" but actually more clunky. If most of the page content is about the society of the tribe (e.g. culture, settlements, leaders, relations with others), then the page should be named for the tribe. Switching it around would mean that 90% of the page contents are in a single huge subsection about the Sandfury tribe, which I feel like comes off as a silly use of sections. Yes, technically "Sandfury tribe" is a subset of "sand troll", but I think that distinction can be made perfectly clearly with the existing structure. Presenting things in a hierarchy makes sense in the Troll Compendium, since that structure is important to the other troll races with multiple tribes, and you want to keep it uniform. But on a wiki page, I tend to value practicality over technicality. There's also the recognizability factor - "Sandfury" is common in the game and players are likely to recognize and look for it, whereas "sand troll" is basically a term made up because all the other troll tribes had a "type" attached to them and they had to label the Sandfury something :)

I tweaked the first sentence of the Sand troll section to emphasize that they encompassed the Sandfury tribe completely - I think that makes the hierarchy pretty clear? - jerodast (talk) 00:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Farraki

In case anyone sees this, in MoP the Sand Trolls use the descriptor "Farraki" which is more in line with typical Zandali language. I think it might be worth using here instead. --Kra'Khed (talk) 21:42, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Farraki is presumably short for the Farraki tribe/empire, and is not the race. Oddly, it is a new term established after Zul'Farrak was made "nothing but a wasteland", so I'm not sure that the term has any meaning at all.--SWM2448 23:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Farraki Ethnicity? much like in the real world Ethnicities are called by the land they come from(probably botching the definition). Farraki, Drakkari, Amani, Gurubashi, Zandalari.--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:30, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

They are the adjective form of the tribe/empire. I'm not sure why the Sandfury changed their name.--SWM2448 00:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. maybe Sandfury is the ethnicity while Farraki is the nationality. Much like the Darkspear are jungle trolls but not gurubashi trolls.(intrepertations bluh)--Ashbear160 (talk) 01:07, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

My guess is that Farraki is (or was) the empire while Sandfury is their particular tribe, much like the Gurubashi or Amani have multiple tribes within them. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:33, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Except as far as I know the Sandfury never had their own empire. Maybe it just fits better with them working with the other troll empire survivors.--SWM2448 02:25, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

The way I see it it seems Troll cities take the names of their Trolls or the other way around. "Sandfury" may just be the Zandali to Common to English translation. Or it may be that individual tribes also technically still belong to a greater one, making all Forest Trolls Amani and Jungle Trolls Gurubashi. In that case Sandfury Trolls could still be Farraki.

In any case "Farraki" is the only word of identifiably Zandali origin used to describe them and probably should be worked in somewhere. --Kra'Khed (talk) 02:40, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Farraki should definitely be here even if pointed out that we don't know exactly to what part of the sand trolls it refers to.--Ashbear160 (talk) 03:23, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I strongly doubt it is a racial term.--SWM2448 03:27, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there is any deep lore reason for their new name. I think that the developers choose the name bacause Farakki sounds cooler and the sound of it fits more with the sound of the Drakkari, Amani and Gurubashi they are hanging out with.--LemonBaby (talk) 06:57, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, but Sandfury Troll as a racial designation is of RPG derivation. In other words it has been non-canon as anything other than a tribe for awhile, the proper race term would be "Sand Troll". Saying "Farraki" is meaningless and was just pulled out of the Zandalar tribes ass is ignoring the fact that it fits better than "Sandfury" with how their city is named and everything. --Kra'Khed (talk) 14:39, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Then use sand troll.--SWM2448 17:11, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm currently considering how exactly to go about it. I still feel the usage of the term "Farraki" implies that's what the Tribe of Sand Trolls under the Zandalari are known by. Perhaps there name was changed or they were collected into a new tribe, but if an organization was renamed would we still use the old one? Would "Farraki" be considered a new tribe or would we instead write something more like "The Farraki, formerly known as the Sandfury...? --Kra'Khed (talk) 17:22, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I think we should call them Farraki now. Blizzard seems to be going with it. The "formerly known as the Sandfury" line would probably be the best way to go about it. Reign (talk) 01:31, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I fell that Farraki is the demonym of this troll race, extending to all the sand troll settlements. We met the Sandfury in WoW for the first time and their only estable settlement and big city is Zul'Farrak. The other settlements are in ruins. Maybe the only Farraki tribe is the Sandfury. Also, as said before by Ashbear, the "Sandfury race" is something that it is said in the RPG (which is non-canon). I think we should separate the sand troll race (Farraki) and the sand troll tribe known as Sandfury. --Cemotucu (talk) 02:55, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Troll Compendium/Sand Trolls: The sand trolls have never formed an empire, only known tribe is the Sandfury, due to where they were when the Sundering happened, they were part of the Gurubashi empire until separated.\

It seems to me, that any sand troll that may have survived the destruction of Zul'Farrak likely renamed themselves Farraki in honor of their home and likely moved to Zandalar which may have been a safe-haven for them. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 04:38, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Coobra talks sense.--SWM2448 04:49, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

According to the Council of Elders: The history of the troll tribes -- the Drakkari, the Farraki, the Amani, and the Gurubashi -- is awash with millennia of betrayal and conflict, but the Zandalari's promise of a new, unstoppable empire has finally united these disparate troll leaders. So Farakki might in fact be a synonym for Sandfury....--LemonBaby (talk) 06:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying. Farraki is what Blizzard seems to be calling them now, so let's rename the article. Reign (talk) 07:01, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

If a rename happens, then a split would be necessary. All info related to the race moved to sand troll, and all info related to the tribe moved to Farraki since Farraki is not a race. And because there's only one sand troll tribe, the line that would separate the info would be slightly blurry, which was the reason for the merger in the first place I believe. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 07:30, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

The Council of Elders's text seems to equate the sand trolls with the term "Farraki", just like the jungle trolls are sometimes referred as Gurubashi Trolls when they're not part of the Gurubashi tribe. I would split the articles and begin the Sand Troll article like this: "The sand trolls are sometimes referred to as Farraki trolls, after their capital city Zul'Farrak."

In other article, I would put all the info of the Sandfury tribe, even if the sand trolla article becames a stub.--Cemotucu (talk) 15:29, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

I would add that the title "Sandfury" was only applied to the race in the RPG. They are properly known as "Sand Trolls" who belong to the "Sandfury Tribe" or the "Farraki". With "Sandfury" being neither the racial title nor the only named organization among the Sand Trolls this article is already somewhat incorrect and has been so for some time. --Kra'Khed (talk) 21:13, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

As others have pointed out "Farraki" seems to be a synonym / untranslated version of "Sandfury". So this article is actually mostly correct, because 95% of it concerns the history of the tribe and their actions as a society (not a race). In fact from skimming it the only "as a race" problems I see are conflating the race and tribe in the top sentence, one trivia item about eye color, and the brief blurb in "ancient history" about adapting to the desert. You could put these things in a separate article but frankly I don't think there's even enough there. I would just make it a short subsection, "Sand trolls: The Sandfury tribe is comprised of sand trolls, a race of trolls that adapted to" etc. As to the name I'm not super happy with moving the relevant article every time Blizzard releases a new version of something with an updated name. I'd rather just redirect the new to the old. Nothing in the lore says "Sandfury" was WRONG, and it's the identifier the community has known the longest. - jerodast (talk) 09:36, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

According to this: Farraki is another name for them...--LemonBaby (talk) 16:28, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Split

In my opinion, I think it might be best to split this page into "Sand troll" and "Sandfury tribe". To me it feels kind of clunky to have both on the same page, even if the only known tribe of sand trolls is the Sandfury. -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 18:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

The Shadowtooth Clan is likewise the only known Dark troll tribe and they're are already on separate pages. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:21, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Farraki

I want to re-open the subject of renaming this page to Farraki. Even, perhaps especially, if it's not a retcon and is an in-universe rebranding. A comparison I'd make is how the Bloodtotem renamed themselves Feltotem, and so Feltotem is the name of their page. ReignTG (talk) 19:18, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Sure, why not. Xporc (talk) 19:20, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

It'd be more accurate, so, yeah. I'm all for renaming the page. – WarGodZajru (talk) 06:30, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Separation of Farraki and Sandfury

With the advent of BfA, it's obvious the name Sandfury is still used at the same time as Farraki. In addition, Sandscalp is still alive, and Zul'farrak isn't as abandoned as we thought. While both are obviously part of the Zandalari empire; I think it's worth noting that the two should be separated into different tribes. The Farraki might have been a new thing for Pandaria, and I've combed through everything, they've never been stated to be the same as the Sandfury. Infact, Sul the Sandcrawler stood on the same level as Frost King Malakk, king of the Drakkari; so there's something to be said about that if Sandscalp was still alive and Sul was chosen instead. Jakra'zet and the other Sandfury continue to use that branding, and Farraki has not been used at all in BfA. It seems like they have been, and are, separate tribes of sand trolls. And while I know old lore said the Sandfury were the only Sand Troll tribe, the Sandscalp tribe disputes this already. It's entirely possible that the trolls of Zul'farrak just split into multiple tribes, Zul'aman had several tribes living in/around it that did not call themselves explicitly Amani, I don't see why the Sand Trolls are different. --Berenal (talk) 16:45, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

This tweet confirmed that Sandfury and Farraki are the same thing. -- MyMindWontQuiet 17:10, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Also, it's worth noting that the name Farraki is used in BfA, in the form of the  [Farraki Funeral Urn] from Sandfury Reserve. Even without the tweet, this (IMO) pretty clearly indicates that "Farraki" and "Sandfury" are interchangeable names for the same tribe, not different groups. -- DeludedTroll (talk • contribs) 11:03, 10 October 2018 (UTC)