Talk:Airship

Airships vs Gunships

The gunship is an airship only if it uses gas.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 02:08, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

The Horde one does. The Alliance one uses rotors of all kinds. Are not also gunships attack helicopters? Regardless, I feel the page should affect Blizzard's usage (which likely has been abandoned for just 'gunship' so it is pointless anyway).--SWM2448 02:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If the only difference between the two was gas, wouldn't it be called a Gasship... they are both terms meaning the same thing, its no different than calling it a flying machine, sky-engine... or even a zeppelin. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 02:32, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems to have been changed without a counterpoint to this. Oh well, I do not feel like opening a can of worms this late. Who knows? He may be right.--SWM2448 02:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I listened to the gunship interview link. I never heard them say airship, just gunship. I don't know what they actually look like though, just that gnomish and goblin engineers worked on them. A flying machine covers both types. But under that category there are two types: gas types of aircraft and ones that don't need gas (not fuel gas but buoyant gas). A dirgible, zeppelin, and ballon are airships. A gyrocopter and biplane are not airships.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 02:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I hope I don't have to bring up the warning about applying earth definitions to Warcraft Universe where definitions may not necessarily mean the same thing. However, if one wants to look at straightforward dictionary definitions airship just refers to a "lighter-than-air aircraft with propulsion and steering mechanisms"-Webster.com. It could more or less refer to several types of aircraft. Not all are zeppelins.Baggins (talk) 03:44, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Well not really. Airships are "lighter-than-air (buoyant) aircraft with propulsion and steering mechanisms". Your forgetting the buoyant part. It fits with WoW. There are flying machines (aircraft) of which there are two kinds. The ones that use gas and the ones that don't. Are you really saying a zeppelin is just like a gyrocopter and a biplane is the same thing as a scout balloon?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 04:11, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, what I put was quote from Webster.com. Your quote is not the same as the one on Websters. But yes different dictionaries will give you different definitions.Baggins (talk) 04:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok so are you saying that airships are just like biplanes?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 04:16, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Biplanes are a kind of airships if you use Princeton's definition;

airship
noun
a steerable self-propelled aircraft
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

Linguistics are fun ;). Everyone has their own definitions.Baggins (talk) 04:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL Ok well I don't know I am going by this, which makes sense to me and looks like it works with WoW too, on Wikipedia.

"Aircraft fall into two categories: lighter-than-air (aerostats), and heavier-than-air (aerodynes). Aerostats use buoyancy to float in the air in much the same way that ships float on the water. They are characterized by one or more large gasbags or canopies, filled with a relatively low density gas such as helium, hydrogen or hot air, which is less dense than the surrounding air. When the weight of this is added to the weight of the aircraft structure, it adds up to the same weight as the air that the craft displaces. Heavier-than-air aircraft must find some way to push air or gas downwards, so that a reaction occurs (by Newton's laws of motion) to push the aircraft upwards. This dynamic movement through the air is the origin of the term aerodyne. There are two ways to produce dynamic upthrust: aerodynamic lift, and powered lift in the form of engine thrust.

So to put it simply they both can use propulsion and steering mechanisms. One uses a gas bag type item though. The other doesn't. So you have your airship, blimp, zeppelin, balloon, and dirigibles. Then you have your gyrocopter, biplane, triplane, and monoplanes. Does no one see the difference between these two groups or is it just me?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 04:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

You might have missed the WoWWiki rule that states that Wowwiki is not Wikipedia, or any other encyclopedia or dictionary.

BTW, dirigibles, blimps, and zeppelins are all just alternate names of the same type of craft, although the terms originate from seperate countries, languages, or brand names. A steerable lighter than air craft. A balloon is seperate in that it isn't normally steerable.Baggins (talk) 04:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Well I know it isn't wikipedia but we have to get some definitions from somewhere. I just don't see where in lore it states that airships are not the buoyancy type of aircraft. It seems easy to me. Like the saying goes, "which one of these doesn't belong". You have airships, dirigibles, zeppelins, balloons, gyrocopters, biplanes, triplanes, and monoplanes. Don't you see some of these are different from some others?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 04:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

"we have to get some definitions from somewhere."

Yes, WoWWiki policy is that definitions should come from official Warcraft sources or at least designer notes. Anything else would likely be speculation.

If you can't find any definitions in official sources, then the page is likely even less than a stub & probably should be merged into another related article as a sidenote. ...or probably shouldn't exist at all do to "relevance" issues (remember we are not a dictionary website, and we aren't trying to define every single word used in a warcraft source).

As I recall this word was merged into Zeppelin or Flying machine originally. Since it can relate to both.Baggins (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Ya, I actually put a merge tag in the airship page about 2 days ago or something. I am not sure what happens after that though. The only thing the page has is two sentences. One about airships being flying machines which everyone knows already. Another about zeppelins being airships. A third sentence I removed because it said gunships are airships. I went to the interview link and I didn't hear them mention airships unless I missed it. Does someone review the merge suggestion now or vote on it?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 05:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Definitions aside, I feel this is my fault. 'Airship' was indeed not used in the interview, 'Gunship' was. I added that they were airships based on an unofficial preview (they were wrong in that respect), so it is NOT a term used in this context at all. Therefore, this conversation about the definition is irrelevant (and Blizzard's is supreme anyway). For those who do not know what they look like, the Horde one is a big spiky boat with two long zeppelin balloons on top and a massive gun in front and the Alliance one is a roundish boat with rotors all over, a bomb bay, and eagle head motif in the front and on the bridge in the back (little pictures of them can be seem on the Icecrown map BTW). Also, this page was created because someone left a dead link to it on flying machine.[1]--SWM2448 17:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Despite originating in a vile unofficial preview here, the gunships being airships in referenced offhand by Blizzard here (and less offhand here). Though I think the interview is more official.--SWM2448 01:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I think a gunship could be an airship as long as it has some kind of gas-filled bags that helps it stay in the air. It just means it is sort of like a zeppelin, which is an airship, but with firepower. I looked at that link for public transportation and they look like they have some king of gas-filled bags. It fits with everything else I have read which says zeppelins are airships. Rolandius (talk - contr) 02:53, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

A gunship could be an airship as long as Blizzard says it can. The Alliance one does not use gas-filled bags.--SWM2448 03:51, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Well this is the only airship I have heard about in lore that does not use gas-filled bags. All the other "airships" I have read or seen pictures of in lore have gas-filled bags. In that same page they also say Ice Crown instead of Icecrown. Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:06, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, the Ice Crown thing shows it may be an error, but if Blizzard says it, then it is true. A note can be put on how it would be wrong in the real world, but it is still said by them.--SWM2448 00:59, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Goodness... so much nonsense.

Let me impart my infinite wisdom on this issue.

An Airship = A Ship that flies in the air

A Gunship = A Ship with Guns

Therefore, an Airship with Guns still = Gunship

Now, that makes things awefully easy doesn't it? --Invin Dranoel (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It makes things easy, but does it make it correct? :) I feel there is enough here to make some note in the article.--SWM2448 22:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

You are half right Invin.

An Airship does not = A Ship that flies in the air

A Ship that flies in the air = An Aircraft.

An Airship = An Aircraft that needs a type of bag with a type of gas to help it stay in the air

A Gunship = An Aircraft with Guns

Do you really think that the Gnomish bomber or Dwarven gyrocopter are airships? This is going by lore (pre-WotLK) and not just "infinite wisdom". Rolandius (talk - contr) 03:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Keep spite to a minimum (though 'infinite wisdom' is pushing it in some aspect). Somewhere this got way more controversial than it needed to be. I added a section that summarizes this debate.--SWM2448 22:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that this could be turned into a disambiguation between gunships (with citations, as it is not used much) and zeppelins. I think More Magic and Mayhem was in error, and should just get a small footnote, if anything.--SWM2448 01:46, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Convert article into a disambiguation page

If this is all the information this article has and it just says that airships are gunships and zeppelin, then SWM2448's comment from 2011 should be the voice of wisdom here and this article should be turned into a disambiguation page. --Celellach (talk) 01:22, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Yep. I think the same way about a lot of things. --PcjWowpedia admin (TDrop me a line!•C207,729 contributions and counting) 01:26, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Ah, the good old debates from 200X. Should we discuss including back halflings on wowpedia? Xporc (talk) 09:30, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

What does that have to do with it? I was just pointing out that the comment back in 2011 was valid then and even more so valid now, seeing as how the page lacks any data aside from saying in prose its a disambiguation for gunships and zeppelin. --Celellach (talk) 09:35, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

My comment wasn't aimed at you, merely at the old debates from before the RPG was declared non-canon. So much pointless arguing about semantics and things that seem useless now... That Rolandius guy seemed like a particular champ. Xporc (talk) 09:41, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Oh ok, my apologizes then Xporc. --Celellach (talk) 09:57, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

No worries, often jokes are lost on the Internet :D Xporc (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Yup, rules were invented for him. --PcjWowpedia admin (TDrop me a line!•C207,729 contributions and counting) 11:42, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Maybe it could stay as a helm page for zeppelins and Alliance & Horde gunships? --Mordecay (talk) 11:16, 25 August 2017 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean by helm page. But maybe that's what Celellach/Sandwichman was referring to by disambiguating between the two. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pcj (talk · contr).

I'd say start a vote on whether keeping it the way it is but improving it or turning it into a disambiguation page. — SurafbrovWarcraft Wiki administrator T / C 21:10, 25 August 2017 (UTC)