Talk:Ymirjar

What are the Ymirjar?

So this isn't really a type of undead? It is just a caste that has vargul and frost vrykul in it? Rolandius (talk - contr) 07:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Well, the frost vrykul page is currently wrong/misleading. The quests hint at the Ymirjar winners having the not-rotting frost vrykul model, and the Vargul losers having a rotting body, but this is thrown off by Wyrmcaller Vile and Thalgran Blightbringer having rank, and Ymirjar Dusk Shamans and Ymirjar Witch Doctors having the Ymirjar title but the Vargul model. I do not know how to reconcile it with out speculating. The two Vargul Ymirjar are both spellcasters, so weaker bodies may rot faster than their warrior kin? The Lich King's "immortality" is not so great for long even if you win?--SWM2448 17:56, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

My thoughts were that the Ymirjar were an organization with any vargul being more like servant members. Is there anything that says Ymirjar winners become changed so that they are a new race and not frost vrykul any longer? We know the losers are supposed to change into vargul and everything. It also seems like every village is being treated by some users as a new race/organization. I think some of these villages are just villages and do not have to be a new race/organization in every case. Rolandius (talk - contr) 00:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking back at this page, it can not decide what it is talking about. The first sentence is for certain, but I can not reconcile what else I know into it. Are the Ymirjar elite undead frost vrykul (which may have been normal vrykul in life)? Are all undead vrykul working for the Lich King Ymirjar? Is undeath part of the ascendancy reward, or an unrelated benefit? Are the vargul ones servants, spell-casters, rotted frost vrykul, or what? Is it an organization that includes many types of things (that won the ascendancy battles) in service to the Lich King, or just vrykul?--SWM2448 21:59, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

What we can cite

I really think  [10-30] Stop the Ascension! is talking about Ymirjar, though not calling them by name.--SWM2448 20:47, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. Quoting  [25-30] The Duke here: "The vrykul there are in a constant state of challenge to 'ascend'. The winners go to Ymirheim to serve as the Lich King's elite warrior caste, the Ymirjar, and the losers are reduced to Scourged Vargul". So ascension is going to Ymirheim and joining the Ymirjar. Xporc (talk) 20:53, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

The problem is that Halfdan is not just going on a trip, but being turned undead first. That implies a lot of things that are not supported elsewhere.--SWM2448 20:59, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I am not sure I understand you. I rewatched the quest through youtube. He basically fails his challenge in front of the val'kyr, and he's judged unworthy, and as such is soul is taken to somewhere instead of ascending. Xporc (talk) 21:08, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Having won something off-screen, he was set for (un)life before the player re-challenged him. There is a "safe" definition of ascending that does not include speculation on implications, and then there is the "speculative" definition that says that a Ymirjar is rewarded with non-vargul undeath, which was removed from the page. Annhylde the Caller has two resurrection quotes, though I don't know if the positive-sounding one made it out of beta. Look at  [10-30] The Echo of Ymiron: the dialogue is implying something. Ask yourself what val'kyr do.--SWM2448 21:13, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

So here are what we do know about the Ymirjar:

• The vrykul are in a constant state of challenge to 'ascend' ( [25-30] The Duke).
• Ascending means going to Ymirheim to serve as the Lich King's elite warrior caste. Losing means being reduced to a vargul ( [25-30] The Duke).
• Duels are judged by the val'kyr ( [25-30G5] Not-So-Honorable Combat).
• The Ymirjar are said to have gained the favor of the Lich King ( [25-30 Daily] Blood of the Chosen).

Now here's what we do know about Halfdan:

• Halfdan was about to do a ritual where angelic beings would ascend him into the heavens, transcending death - if he was worthy, as noted by the NPC.
• Val'kyr Observers were there. Their name implies to me that they were to observe (judge) him, not to reward him after winning something off-screen, but I don't think it is a distinction that matters considering the next point
• Adventurers wreck his face in front of the val'kyr.
• The val'kyr judges him unworthy.

I strongly believe that these are supposed to be the same rituals. as for the case of Annhylde the Caller, I don't think I have ever seen the "positive" quote used once, and I believe it has been cut if it had ever existed to begin with, considering it doesn't show up here. Xporc (talk) 21:37, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Does ascension have a magical element, and if so what is it? Transcending death via undeath? We still don't have a solid answer to this question.--SWM2448 21:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the mystery. Some Ymirjar frost vrykul are classified as Undead, others as Humanoid. The way I understand it, the Lich King must grand them something, maybe making them undead-but-not-truly like the death knights, maybe cleaning the Curse of Flesh, but what it is exactly, I don't know. We just know they ascend/are rewarded by something. Xporc (talk) 21:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Again with the Norse Mythology

Since all of Northrend is highly based on Norse mythology, am I then going to far by saying that the Ymirjar is based on the Einherjar[1]? I see them as pretty much the same but you can be the judge of that.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Spoegefugl (talk · contr).

Ymirjar and Vargul

Of the vrykul who fight in Jotunheim, it was said that the winners become Ymirjar and the losers become Vargul. That would seemingly preclude any vrykul from being both Ymirjar and Vargul. Is it possible that the undead members of the Ymirjar are actually not considered Vargul at all? Perhaps they look the same only because Blizzard made just one "undead vrykul" model. If there were a greater variety of models available, I imagine the undead Ymirjar (who were given undeath as a gift) would have looked stronger and better-preserved than the Vargul (who were given undeath as a punishment). Egrem (talk) 01:22, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Possible, but why did they not just use the frost vrykul models? If they get turned into a similar kind of undead, win or lose, what is the point of the Ymirjar fights?--SWM2448 21:37, 24 March 2012 (UTC)