Talk:Seven Kingdoms
Article name
I'd like to propose moving this article to Seven Kingdoms, which is the term used in the History of Warcraft section on the subject. Better to use official terminology when available.--Aeleas 12:35, 16 December 2006 (EST)
Relations?
Has any lore been released on the relations between the kingdoms during the (rather long) stretch of time between The Troll Wars and the Horde invasion? I always thought of it like the European relations between Napoleon and WW1. thus as sporadic wars, but nothing serious just a few battles determining where the Lordaeron-Gilneas border in Silverpine is placed.. Anyway it's highly unlikely that we would have peace for thousands of years.. -Rovdyr 00:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
- The broze dragons say they were on the brink of 'civil' war before the First War happened.--SWM2448 00:53, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, and we can be quite sure that every nation had a standing army, so war was definetaly not unknown of.. but is it known how common a war would be, and how big such a war would be? -Rovdyr 12:04, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems equally clear that Lordaeron had at least one, possibly more, major wars with the Trolls, seeing as the Troll Wars only gained humanity a boundary corresponding to the Alterac Mountains. This i suppose would explaine Lordaeron's impressive size compaired to the other human nations, it had more room to expand into. gadget (talk) 09:06, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Tol Barad
Tol Barad's status as a kingdom is sourced in Day of the Dragon, yet it's listed as having been founded in Cataclysm. This makes no sense, as Day of the Dragon took place WELL before Cataclysm, and it's very clear in-game that it's not under anyone's control. Why is it listed in the chart with the other kingdoms? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- It's a territory managed by various kingdoms for the purpose of imprisonment of the big bads, it should be treated as something like the vatican or the federal district in the united states.--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:23, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Neither of those examples match the explanation you gave, but I think you're agreeing with me that Tol Barad shouldn't be listed as a kingdom? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Not as a kingdom (since it doesn't have a king) but something compared to something similar to a small independent nation-like thing--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- But it's never been an independent nation-like thing. It was controlled by Stromgarde during the Second War, then by Kul Tiras during the Third War, and now it seems to be under the control of nobody. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:32, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Not as a kingdom (since it doesn't have a king) but something compared to something similar to a small independent nation-like thing--Ashbear160 (talk) 18:29, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Day of the Dragon and Cataclysm call it a kingdom? I would like to see the lines. Once I see them, I'll agree on adding it, next to Theramore, of course, outside the 7 kingdoms.
- Also, they don't need any king to be a kingdom; see Dalaran and Theramore.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:31, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- "Between Hasic and the shores of Khaz Modan only the ravaged island kingdom of Tol Barad brought any change to the endless waves, and Falstad had previously indicated that the party would not be landing there." (Day of the Dragon) --g0urra[T҂C] 18:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- About the only explanation that makes sense, then, given that we know it's been under the control of other nations since before the Second War, is that it was a kingdom at one point, but hasn't been in a very long time. Likely before the Dark Portal was even opened. Alternatively, it was a flub by Knaak, which is equally possible. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:36, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Newer lore keeps mentioning a "Duke Reginald Baradin II" which would mean that it is a dukedom of duchy. None of the other kingdoms (besides Dalaran) use titles other than "king", do they?--SWM2448 18:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Not for their rulers (though I think Aiden Perenolde might have gone simply by "Lord" now that I think about it, but that's not really what you're asking). Of course, with what little we know about Duke Reginald Baradin II, he could have just been a duke from Stromgarde or Kul Tiras in charge of overseeing Tol Barad. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:54, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Newer lore keeps mentioning a "Duke Reginald Baradin II" which would mean that it is a dukedom of duchy. None of the other kingdoms (besides Dalaran) use titles other than "king", do they?--SWM2448 18:44, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- About the only explanation that makes sense, then, given that we know it's been under the control of other nations since before the Second War, is that it was a kingdom at one point, but hasn't been in a very long time. Likely before the Dark Portal was even opened. Alternatively, it was a flub by Knaak, which is equally possible. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:36, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- "Between Hasic and the shores of Khaz Modan only the ravaged island kingdom of Tol Barad brought any change to the endless waves, and Falstad had previously indicated that the party would not be landing there." (Day of the Dragon) --g0urra[T҂C] 18:34, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks for the DotD source, but still, I haven't found any reference to it being a kingdom in Cataclysm. Any idea of where could that come from? :S--Lon-ami (talk) 18:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Duke Reginald Baradin II was mentioned as the leader of Baradin's Wardens, not Tol Barad. --g0urra[T҂C] 18:56, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- So the leader of the Allance wardens on the island just happens to have a family name that appears to be the adjective form of the kingdom? If so, weird.--SWM2448 19:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- The Wardens are cited as being an army ruled by a duke. This duke may or may not be the leader of the former Tol Barad kingdom, or may or may not be related to the former ruler of Tol Barad. We don't know exactly, but saying he was the leader of Tol Barad is farfetched. --g0urra[T҂C] 19:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Blizzard said it themselves: The Novels are canon, but sometimes they are "less canon".I thibk we should not list Tol Barad as a kingdom, as we have only one line from a novel as a source.--Azuuma (talk) 02:31, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
- The Wardens are cited as being an army ruled by a duke. This duke may or may not be the leader of the former Tol Barad kingdom, or may or may not be related to the former ruler of Tol Barad. We don't know exactly, but saying he was the leader of Tol Barad is farfetched. --g0urra[T҂C] 19:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- So the leader of the Allance wardens on the island just happens to have a family name that appears to be the adjective form of the kingdom? If so, weird.--SWM2448 19:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Duke Reginald Baradin II was mentioned as the leader of Baradin's Wardens, not Tol Barad. --g0urra[T҂C] 18:56, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks for the DotD source, but still, I haven't found any reference to it being a kingdom in Cataclysm. Any idea of where could that come from? :S--Lon-ami (talk) 18:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
- Its own article refers to Tol Barad as belonging to Stromgarde then to Kul'Tiras, why is it listed as a kingdom of its own in the Template?
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 07:17, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Article name 2
The council that led to the creation of the AoL is called Seven Nations in Chronicles. It could be a retcon or simply an alternative name. Does Chronicles says anything about the Seven Kingdoms? Or just the Seven Nations is only a name for the Council? Also this map https://wow.gamepedia.com/File:Chronicle_Map_of_Arathor%27s_City-States.jpg says the Human Kingdoms. So many names... --Ryon21 (talk) 05:41, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- No, Chronicle text just refers to them as "human nations" and "human leaders". Probably because it introduces each with their formal titles, 2 of which are not kings (Archmage Antonidas and Lord Admiral Daelin Proudmoore). This isn't really much of a departure. Even the WC2 manual uses mixed terminology for the "kingdoms", specifically pointing out the Dalaran is not a literal kingdom. But given that this page name is capitalized and it's not really a formal title/entity (if there is an instance, it's not cited), it should probably be moved to "Seven kingdoms" or "Seven nations". And I realize that the title of the History of Warcraft section has it capitalized, but everything is capitalized in the title, it's never referred to as such in the body of the text. --Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 06:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
- I am not really a big fan of this name either because of the last point Aqua said. The only instance "Seven Kingdoms" is capitalized in a text is Warcraft: Novelization, but that probably stays within the WFU. Similar case is with the New Horde, I don't think have have ever seen it like this in a body of a text, only in headers of the History Chapters, UVG timeline - UVG has it also like (New) Horde - and in a pre-Cata quest. --Mordecay (talk) 11:56, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
[The Seven Kingdoms] makes the current name good enough, unless you have a better official one? Don't we have already gargantuan amounts of work to do elsewhere before wanting to change things like that? Xporc (talk) 15:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)