Talk:Darkspear tribe

Classes

Should the article include info on certain classes, similar to many other races page. Only makes sense to me :S --ReidAzango 05:19, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean? Could you give a link for an example?--RocketBrother (talk) 11:02, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Vol'jin's class

Isn't Vol'jin a Witch Doctor, not a Shadow Hunter? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Andrelvis2534 (talk · contr).

Vol'jin was a Witch Doctor in Warcraft IIITopDread 01:34, 27 February 2007 (EST)

They settled in some islands near the Maelstorm, not Stranglethorn. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Iavas (talk · contr).

It apparently has been retconned, as Vol'jin is now referred as the Shadow Hunter of the Darkspear trolls.--Sul'jin 13:01, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well techinically the Shadow Hunter is an advanced witch doctor so both are right.Baggins 00:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Size

How can the Darkspear tribe alone form the troll race in WoW? It was a very small race when the Gurubashi Empire was large, and its number must have been thinned by the civil war, then they are driven from their home in Stranglethorn and forced to live on remote islands, where they are first attacked by murlocs, then humans, then much of their tribe is captured and some killed by murlocs, they flee with Thrall after the a volcanic eruption that should have killed a lot. When they reaches Kalimdor, their ships run aground and many orcs and troll must drown, then they fights humans and quillboars all over Kalimdor, ending in the battle of Mount Hyjal. Finally they settles on the Echo Isles where they are attacked by Kul Tiras, and later Zalazane enslaves many using his dark magics. How can they be enough? A small tribe going through all that above cant number more than the high elves and the primary argument for why high elves isnt in game is that they are to few -Rovdyr 20:23, 10 March 2007 (EST)

The number that we represent is not the true number. in fact, according to the lore, we apparently pretty much don't exist, maybe 1 or 2 groups of players do. and it never specifies anywhere that i have seen the number of darkspears still alive (for all we know, when they were on the broken islands they outnumbered the orcs, and then on the echo islands almost all of them survived the journey). not to mention the troll civil wars would have absolutely no play on current population considering it is thousands of years old. trolls are also incredibly difficult to kill, able to regrow limbs and survive wounds that nearly any other mortal race would quickly die from. and on top of all of this, the high elves only number between 2,000 and 20,000 in SW(it is debated if it is a typo, but i would assume the 2,000 is correct), whereas the trolls may number far above that. it is also fairly unclear on how trolls birth, and how quickly trolls come of age (an orc is able to fight when he is 12, he is large enough and strong enough to be like a level one and train and learn), so trolls may come of age much younger than humans, and be fully able to participate in battle.

In essence, all we know of the darkspear, and trolls in general is: the darkspears are pretty small in number, but we have no idea the actual number (to my knowledge), and trolls are difficult to kill. this could lead to way more trolls living than you may think.--Haddon 21:24, 10 March 2007 (EST)

You can't say that Jungle and Forest Trolls are different species. They are simply one species, that have lived in different enviroments. Just look at how different we humans can look, depending on which part of the world we are from.. -Odolwa 22:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The page got screwed up once i tried to fix a size misunderstanding. Plz fix cuz i have no idea how to do so. Baldr

Well, According to Brann, Durotar has a population of 21,000, and darkspear trolls make up 20% of that, so there are at leat 4,200 members of the tribe. Plus all the one's serving in the Horde Armies, (which considering they are the primary ranged fighters for the Horde must be a lot) as well as the ones in the various troll settlements in Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Zangarmarsh and other horde settlements with Darkspear's lovong in them, it could be thousands more. Lckyluke372 16:20, 12 October 2007

The numbers of Jungle Trolls as given in Lands of Conflict and Lands of Mystery (may include more than just Darkspear trolls). It gives an approximate total to the number of Darkspear trolls in Azeroth;

2500 - Barrens 880 - Desolace 4200 – Durotar and Orgrimmar 360 – Dustwallow Marsh 120 – Stonetalon Mountains 160 – Silithus 180 – Mulgore and Thunder Bluff 1000 – Stranglethorn Vale 180 – Tirisful Glades and Undercity

= 9580 Total

Note that other locations may have Darkspear populations but are too small a percentage to be counted.--Baggins 20:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Relationships with the Blood elves

From what I've seen their relationship to the Blood elves can be described as neutral. Though their ancestors fought them many years ago,the Darkspear have no contact unless the elven priests in Kul'tiras count. The blood elves distrust or hate the Darkspear trolls,remembering their fights with forest trolls. Zarnks 07:15, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Definitely neutral, as is stated by the beginning faction page information. Although it should be pointed out that contact between jungle trolls and blood elves was very little, jungle trolls first lived in Stranglethornvale before moving to the Darkspear islands, iirc, which actually placed them farther south than where high/blood elves used to live.

Blood elves tend to have more distrust towards forest trolls, which is a seperate race altogether, and not tied to the jungle troll (at least not directly, they are different cultures).Baggins 07:19, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Misconceptions about the Darkspear trolls

Is there any basis as all that they have given up cannibalism? or that they are "extremely, selflessly loyal" to the orcs? or the rest of the section? Seems too much like fan fiction to me. Even if it's tagged, there should be at least some basis to be included, right? --Raze 07:36, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The fact that you don't believe they have given up cannibalism just shows why this should stay. "the Darkspear tribe, too, was cannibalistic until it joined the Horde, at which point the Darkspears officially gave up cannibalism" [1] Zarnks 07:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

According to lore they have given up cannibalism because Thrall ordered that they had to give up cannibalism to join the Horde, one source of this information is Horde Player's guide, which is ironic if you think about it; considering that the Forsaken almost like its own seperate Horde in the east, still practices cannibalism.Baggins 07:44, 25 July 2007 (UTC)'

We don't even know that kind of cannibalism they had. I'm guessing trolls have ritual cannibalism rather then eating corpses raw. Zarnks 07:45, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually as I recal its said they would eat their enemies, more than each other. It was literally eat the whole corpse kind of cannibalism, although I"m sure they used some parts for ritualistic purposes like the practice of head shrinking. However, thrall put the stop to that, or at least stopped most of the practice. There are rumors that some may still practice it in secret, but its unconfirmed.Baggins 07:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Doubt it. Otherwise they would have the cannibalize as a racial ablity. Almost all Darkspear trolls are extremely loyal to Thrall they would not disobey an order. Zarnks 07:50, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want to actually dispel misconceptions, which is good, cite your sources (I just did the cannibalism one). Much more convincing that way. --Raze 07:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Nah trolls would't have "cannibalize" as a racial ability because no two races share the same two racial abilities in WoW, and like I said the rumor is that some may still secretly practice cannibalism and head shrinking practicesa, not all of them, some is hardly most or all, learn to read.

As a side note in rpg mechanics as opposed to mmo mechanics cannibalism is a learned ability rather than a racial ability. So you could have some sick wack jobs of any race learn it as part of their skill repotoire, LOL.

This discussion reminds me of something some what related, but I seem to recall one source saying that tauren, are big meat eaters (which is definitely true as they like to hunt) and have eaten cattle, LOL. Not quite cannibalism, but almost seems that way, LOL.07:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)Baggins

Guesss the best comparison is a human eating an ape. They look similar even though they are totaly different Zarnks 08:00, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

...Not totally different a chimpanzee for example is only like 2% different than humans as far as genetics are concerned. I personally find the idea of eating an ape strange, and almost cannibalistic.

But that's the real world, back to Warcraft. Cannibalism by definition in warcraft is one sentient race eating another sentient race.Baggins 08:03, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Citations

Citations for community reactions and player misconceptions are hard to come to by. Whats wrong with those two. They show people who believe the Darkspears are cannibals. Zarnks 07:54, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

One was a link to the above discussion. The other linked to some random "mary sue" test. What would be more appropriate is, say, a blog post. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 07:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Heres a quote:

Trolls? Well, their lore says that Trolls possess a burning hate for ALL other races. Umm... that doesn't sound too cool. Evil? I dunno, but it sounds more a NAZI like than a Jamaican (their stereotypical race) to me. I don't think the average dude thinks Nazis are cool.

From [2] *Note filled with idiocy* Zarnks 08:02, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the word "common" from both as it seems fair that the misconceptions exist, but I don't think we need quantify it :P As for that quote, an interesting find, that could be perhaps linked in. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 08:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The misconception is that they are cannibals

Not they are. Stop reinforcing. Heres what I plan to write. Any opposition voice it now.

It is a misconception that Darkspear trolls are cannibals. While they officialy gave it up(making it illegal in the Horde) when joining the Horde (Troll biology, Horde Player's Guide, and there are Revantusk who down on this concept ThottBot, an unknown number are still known to practice cannibalism. These Darkspear trolls practice it in the secret. In the RPG, Darkspear trolls & Forsaken can share the Cannibalize ability (its use is up to individual choice). See [Cannibalize] for more info World of Warcraft implies that the majority by far are not cannibalistic,with many troll npcs denouncing other tribes for praticing it.

It is also a misconception that Darkspear trolls are xenophobic and hate all races. However this only applies to other jungle troll tribes as the Darkspear have quite a close relationship with the orcs and are extremely selflessly loyal to them, and get along well with the tauren due to their shared shamanistic beliefs. They also have neutral feelings toward the blood elves[3]; as jungle trolls living in the extreme south of the continent, they would have had very little contact with them, unlike their forest troll cousins of Zul'Aman, who sworn enemies with the blood elves. The only Horde race the Darkspear don't trust is the Forsaken believing they will only bring misery to their allies, though some have a respect for the Forsaken's shadow ascendants worshipping them as dark loas. They have little love for evil jungle troll brethren as they were persecuted by them for being the weakest and smallest of the troll tribes.(Darkspear trolls) Zarnks 08:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

You actually have to wait for opposition before leaping ahead and changing it... anyway, I've slotted some of your stuff in. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 08:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright note the sillies are well silly and nonsensical. Zarnks 08:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Noted and reworded. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 08:42, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

In the Novel Tides of Darkness, the first encounter of Orcs and (forest)Trolls is of Trolls hunting for food, they refer to the orcs as "Morcells" and intend on eating them, but after a quick head smush from doomhammer it changes... but thats going off topic. my point is, the trolls WERE Cannibles in the past--KingStoph 12:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Those were also the Amani trolls, not the Darkspear trolls. The trolls of the current Horde are entirely different from the trolls of the old Horde. -- Dark T Zeratul 23:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Not a controversy but misconceptions

Stop trying to turn it anti troll. They are xenophobic nor cannibalistic. Zarnks 07:28, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

It has nothing to do with "anti-troll". You know if you continue to call people, "anti-troll", anti-goblin, anti-horde, "alliance-biased", or any related type of phrasing, i'm going to start calling that flammatory behavior on your part, and I will take actions, AGAIN... Its also very ironic behavior and pretty much pot calling the kettle black, for by accusing too much you admit that you have some kind of bias of your own, and its leading to most people thinking you are horde-biased. That just hurts your credibility.

Anyways, back to the reasons for the change;

1. You never proved that they are "common misconceptions". Hell I didn't even know there was any misconceptions until you claimed there were. To some extent I'm within my right to remove the entire section or move it to its own topic.

2. The possibility of Horde cannibalism actually still exists in the lore. So the possible misconception is that you believed that all Horde trolls were not cannibabls. You were the one with a misconception with Blizzard's information.

Don't turn this into a edit war or their will be actions, first I will lock the thread for a few days, and secondly you might see yourself locked out for a few days.Baggins 07:38, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

"The possibility of Horde cannibalism actually still exists in the lore. So the possible misconception is that you believed that all Horde trolls were not cannibabls. You were the one with a misconception with Blizzard's information." What the hell. Trolls frequently denounce other trolls,they don't have the trait,and its mentioned frequently by Blizzards. Is illegal as well. Your ruining my section and turning into the exact opposite of its original message. Instead encouraging these misconceptions. If Blizzard says Darkspears aren't cannibals,they aren't cannibals.

Even if those trolls,they are a minority and don't deserve to be mentioned. Are we going to say humans and gnomes hate the Light and worship demons because of the warlocks next. For Earthmother's sake stop this. Zarnks 07:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Its unknown if its a minority or not, no number has been given. In anycase for things that have definitely been said to be minority they are certainly worth mentioning but only if mentioned in the correct article, where they are most on topic.

Since you brought this whole thing up int he first place I'd suggest that you have the right to remove the section entirely if you don't like having rebuttal information added. You are the one that made it into a controversy, and blizzard had related information that fit into it (to be honest I would have never probably added it to any topic, unless it related to something, and you created a topic it was related to). Also don't tell people to stop things, if you disagree or don't like things, its not polite. Remember I can stop you if you go too far, :).Baggins 07:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

They certainly aren't the majortiy as all Darkspears who mention it, denouce it and secretive npcs are open in WoW. As a whole the race is non cannibalistic so it is a misconception. Zarnks 07:58, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Nope, it doesn't say "as a whole" it says "the Darkspear tribe no longer practices cannibalism — at least not openly", it speaks of the "tribe", not of "minorities". Again I say it doesn't give any sopecific numbers. We can't speculate if its minority, or half the trolls, or over half the trolls, that kind of info just not given.Baggins 08:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Blizzard has stated several times that Darkspears aren't cannibals. They don't say most aren't or they don't pratice it openly,they say the Darkspears are simply not cannibals. Zarnks 08:03, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Again have you heard of retcons and the fact that Blizzard can change its mind? Blizzard's prerogative can include ignoring stuff they said int he past, in material they create later. I think we discussed this fact in another topic. Not to mention that cultures aren't static and change over time...? Its proven that Blizzard is often contradictory with itself, and often ignores itself many times.Baggins 08:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Why would they retcon. Their encyclopedia of new information itself says it. Darkspears at a whole are not cannibalistic any more then gnomes are demon worshippers. Metzen himself has described the darkspear trolls as good people from an evil race trying to steer straight. He wouldn't let them change Darkspears into cookie cutter bad guys for no reason. Zarnks 08:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

The encyclopedia is actually fairly old, it hasn't been updated in a long time, and infact some of the info it is a bit outdated with new material released in later sources. Alliance Player's Guide and Horde Player's Guide was released long after it, I.E. things that came after an older source, can retcon previous sources. The only thing we know Metzen was involved with both most likely. He was probably involved with the encyclopedia, and he's definitely in the credits for APG, as its creative design editor, and writing additional material inside the book.

As a side Metzen has claimed on more than one occasion, I can think of one, on one of the behind the scenes dvds, that they tend to view all material ever released for Warcraft franchise as in-universe documentation, in that any material is just the written "opinions" and expressions of scholars, historians, people that live in the world, and that the documents were written at different points of history in the world. So basically it comes down to those that believe that there are cannibal trolls and those that believe that they have completely followed Thrall's laws. As well as the possiblity that certain cultures change over periods of time. Its Metzen's contigency plan for when he allows "retcons" to exist, as well as follow the real world pattern where real world historians do not alway agree with each other.

For an example current events;

By one side of people, "Iraq war is a good thing, and should be completed or things will get worse" or by another side of people "Iraq war is a bad thing and should be ended now before things get worse."

I don't care what side you are on, but unless you have have your head in a hole like an ostrich you are sure to know that the two sides have completely different opinions on what's happening over there, some pro, some con, and postive and negative.

Almost any event in history has been covered in multiple viewpoints by different people, who each have different opinions. Vietnam was much the same way, there were many advocates, and many detractors, and it comes down to how people decide to write things.Baggins 08:20, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Height

The height is the official height range given for Darkspear trolls in the RPG. Do not alter it.Baggins

It's wrong, I'm supposed to believe an Orc is taller than a Darkspear? That is probably the most insipidly stupid thing I've ever seen on WoWWiki, excluding anything Zarnks as ever said. Every source I have ever seen gives the Darkspears as being over 7 feet tall, including the WoWMan, which is above the RPGs in accuracy, so I'm going to go with that. Really, as many times as the RPGs have proven them selves to be wrong, your going to look at the RPG and say "oh, hey, Darkspears are a tribe made entirely out of Midgets" I cannot begin to define how dumb that is. Lckyluke372 15:25 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Many are over 7 feet tall, you have noticed that average height has a range right? Average is 7 feet tall, "They are lean and wiry, averaging 7 feet tall and 200 pounds" (Note that it is a quote from World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, stating the average, while the other gives height range). Orcs have more variation in height because some "grew" after fel corruption.Baggins 20:28, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right, tey are 7 feet tall on average, and we should put tht down there because right now, were a making a 6'1 troll seem like he is normal sized. According to the Troll compendium from worldofwarcraft.com "Trolls average seven feet in height and two hundred pounds in weight, save for two tribes, the Drakkari and the Zandalari, who tend to be somewhat larger than their kindred." Lckyluke372 15:45 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The RPGs are one of sources Metzen is in charge of, and he has stated they are official as the games, many times. Only the fans who think it is unofficial are the ones with misconceptions. Granted the reliability ends with Metzen. He's not even reliable when it comes to the games, do you know how many times the games contradict each other? Are you calling Metzen a liar? +

Again, yes, its know that trolls are on average 7 feet tall, this is stated as much in the RPG as well, in the same book. I've given the quote above, however a range chart is the entire spectrum of heights, beyond just averages. It gives far more data than an "average" can. Besides, read the appearance section and it goes into information about averages.Baggins 20:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

To add a real world analogy, a sociologist would be more interested in average heights, a physical anthropologist would be interested in the entire spectrum that a race can obtain.Baggins 20:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Talk to me, son, tell me what makes you think the RPG is unreliable?--K ) (talk) 20:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Lest you don't know what "average" means, or how one comes about getting an average, I suggest you boneup on on your mathamatic knowledge, and learn Averages.Baggins 20:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Large trolls don't necessarily have anthing to do with fel corruption, "A small number of trolls are strikingly larger and more heavily muscled than the rest of their brethren. There is no racial distinction between them and the rest of the troll race. A variety of reasons might be behind this unusual size and musculature. For example, dire trolls might have been altered alchemically or magically. They might also simply have been born larger than average." And besides, Vol'jin is 8'6" and hes a Darkspear, so it should be changed to say 6'1" -8'6". Besides, 8'6" isn't nomal for an Orc, Thrall isn't nearly that tall (7'6") and he's considered to be huge for an Orc. And I wouldn't call Metzen a liar so much as a an with a memory like a sieve. I am failiar with the definitoion of average, but I appreciate your concern. Lckyluke372 15:58 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Large orcs, I said "orcs". Large orcs generally got that statue from fel corruption. Please read closer next time. Also give a reliable citation that "Vol'jin" is 8'6", and if you said you judged it from WoW that's not reliable. WoW has scale issues, and makes some characters veritable giants, to make them boss worthy not lore wise. Yes, Taelin Fordring is not really a giant. You will be hard-pressed to find specific heights for individual characters in official sources (and judging based off a game with scale issues is hardly accurate, not to mention just pure speculation). Baggins 20:59, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, dad, I think that the RPGs are unreliable becaue they regularly contradict both each other and other pieces of lore more often than any other source of lore that I am familiar with. But besides that they're great.Lckyluke372 15:58 13 October 2007 (UTC)

If that's true, then that height range should be under Fel Orcs, instead of the playable orcs. Lckyluke372 16:09 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Um, right, but then how any other source of information should be right? Because if they have the same information, that means they all copycatted each other, basing in a compulsory way themselves on either official information or utter speculation. In the first case, that means they used either the RPG, earlier games or WoW. The RPG may contradict itself, but still it is the most complete source of information. WoW is a true source of information, but in game size is absolutely messed up. As for the earlier games, they've been retconned so many times that I think few things can be trusted.--K ) (talk) 21:12, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok you seem to be dense on the subject of Averages. An average is taken by taking a census of a population's heights. His sample would have people of various heights. He would then take each of those heights and divide it by the number of people to get the average, the larger teh sample the more accurate the average. But an average doesn't mean "everyone is the same height" it just means the most common height obtained by a group.

Not all orcs are fel orcs, although most have been corrupted by fel magic. Fel orcs have their own height range. However most orcs have been corrupted by fel magic during their history, that's why most still retain green skin (it is fel corruption), many are larger than they once were, and other traits. These are passed down to offspring. Having fel corruption doesn't automatically mean an orc is fel orcs.--Baggins 21:13, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

BTW, WoW has bits that contradict itself too. For example night elves evolves from trolls, and those that believe they didn't. These are known as historical bias and flavor lore. Not everyone records history the same way, or has the beliefs. The RPG follows this format, because Metzen wanted lore to follow real-life historians and belif systems, because not everyone agrees on every detail. The RPG generally gives both opinions, rather than settling on one single one.Baggins 21:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be dense on several subjects, the most pressing of which is your ablity to read (which is funny, have you ever read the Lord of the Rings or did you just look at the pictures?) I never said that all trolls were 7' tall. What I was trying to say, but you seem incapable of understanding, is that we need to make it clear the average is 7' tall, which means that the vast majority of all trolls are closer to 7'1" than 6'1" which the article makes no attempt to explain in the section that says Height, just like 5'1" would be in the height range for a human male, but wouldn't be typical. For all you know about facts you seem to know nothing about formatting things in a wa that they're not confusing. And I think you meant trolls buddy. Lckyluke372 16:23 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, now I've gotten what I've wanted and so have you, at this point we're more focused on name-calling than discussing. Issue has been resolved I think we're done here. Lckyluke372 16:28 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxs are not to be used to explain things in large detail. One can find information on averages in the appearance section. I can read your posts just fine. The problem is most of your ideas are wrong.

1. You were wrong about the info being wrong. You couldn't tell the difference between an average and height range (you assumed by the info in RPG that average orcs were taller than average trolls, implying that all orcs were taller than all trolls). An average is a single number, ranges are a series of numbers. Its not that difficult to tell the difference between the two, most people can.

2. You want the infobox to explain things in great detail. However that is not the purpose of the infobox. It is a violation of policy to put too much information in infoboxes. You seem to be unawhare of that. It is proper procedure to add the info into the article itself in another section.

An average doesn't mean closer to 7.1 than 6.1. Actually it means that if you added up the entire range, based on information taken from a census or sample, they'd be closer to 7. Meaning many are between 6.5 and 7.1 most likely (with those under 6.5 in far less numbers). An average will often be the median of the numbers most likely to be rounded up to 7 or rounded down to 7. Baggins 21:33, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

I really do understand what an average is, and the average was all I wanted in there. I didn't say the information on height was wrong I just thought it was questionable as to its accuracy, partly because I do understand averages. You see, in order for 7' to be the average, there would have to be many, many more trolls who were closer to 7' than 6'1" or most of the other numbers because the impact a number that is one inch off from the average has on the average is less than one which is 11 inches off. I didn't want great detail, I just wanted the average height in the infobox which is what I got. What we have here is a failure to communicae, which since I got what I wanted to begin with should probably be left alone because what we are doing right now is picking the proverbial scab of ill-feeling unnecessarily because the issue has been resolved without any maor sacrifices on your part and a small victory on mine (not a victory against you, I just got what I wanted done to the page). It doesn't matter who gotthe last word in, now let stop fighting and maybe a week from now I'll show up at your house wit a romantic movie, some fowers, and some chocalates and we can cuddle on the couch and laugh about it (not really, just joking.) Lckyluke372 16:43 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually I argue that "Average Height" section of racebox should be renamed to just "Height", as that's probably the cause of your initial confusion of thinking that the rpg was stating that the average Orc was taller than the average troll, and I quote, "It's wrong, I'm supposed to believe an Orc is taller than a Darkspear?". The RPG does not say that at all. ...or alternatively there should be a split of Height Range and height Average in two seperate sections of the racebox.Baggins 21:52, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok, well good discussion, I look forward to having another later. Lckyluke372 17:54 13 October 2007 (UTC)

So ya you didn't leave me your thoughts. So which would you prefer? Changing the name to "height", or adding a new height section?Baggins 22:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Add a new Height section. Lckyluke372 17:01 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Why do we currently have orcs being listed as taller than trolls? In WoW, this clearly isn't true, and according to the RPG, orcs "stand from 6 to 7 feet in height". Kulji (talk) 05:49, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Home island

Some sources claim that the Darkspear are from the Broken Isles. Others, however claim that they are from Darkspear Islands, which is a separate island. This contradiction even exists in WoWWiki; it should be cleared somehow. - Don golgi (talk) 00:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

From what I have read in lore and WoWWiki, I have seen about three locations. It says that they are from the Broken Isles, the Darkspear islands, and a lone island in the Darkspear islands. Rolandius (talk - contr) 07:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

It says that Trolls had their home isles on the Echo Isles. Also I marked them as having no standing capital (Gnomeregan is standing, it is just lost.)

BobNamataki. 12:50 PM, Sep 30, 2009.

Darkspear trolls

Darkspear trolls is the ingame faction for the "trolls" (aka "Jungle Troll") race is isn't? Not suggesting we need to split out Darkspear trolls into a playable race/faction article just yet, considering how short this article is currently. Maybe if page was larger than a stub, but no need any time soon. But it probably should be mentioned in the article.Baggins (talk) 07:27, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought they were "Island trolls". Rolandius (talk - contr) 07:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

That would be Warcraft III quest, Island Trolls.Baggins (talk) 07:59, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

I know, but right under that it says they are "island trolls". Rolandius (talk - contr) 08:05, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Current Troll druid lore

Current Troll druid lore has nothing to do with the Rpg as such the current citation does not belong in the Cataclysm section. In the current beta talking to Zen'tabra reveals Darkspear learned druidism from Gonk a Raptor loa with connections to the rpg, they have nothing to do with the tauren so the rpg citation does not belong there as it misleads players on troll druid lore. Copperblast (talk) 03:45, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Fine just forget it... all lore about classes should be on their respected articles anyway. Which I had already placed. Druid races#Troll druids. And just for the record, just cause ONE group of trolls learned it one way, doesn't mean a few troll didn't learn another way. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 04:16, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

Due to the vagueness of the statement it can be interpreted in different ways, it might have only meant they learned a few druid spells or praticed its philosophies. It should stay on this page but the main explanation for troll druids should be the current cataclysm explanation. Copperblast (talk) 04:35, September 28, 2010 (UTC)

A leader?

Can be Zen'tabra considered a secondary leader of the tribe?Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 19:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Alignment

Gourra, shouln't the images on the article be aligned with were they are inserted (specially for displaying proposes)? In our case, the image is getting pushed down by the infobox. Gabrirt (talk · contributions) 21:36, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Are we gonna pretend this wasn't discussed already? Xporc (talk) 21:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)