Talk:Cosmos
I think there's a misunderstanding. The universe is reality, it's also called the physical universe to differentiate it from the astral realm of the Nether for example, or the Great Dark Beyond. They're all the same thing. Then, outside the universe there is the Light, the Void, the Nether, and so on. This is explained in Chronicle p19 :
- "This ever expanding universe - called the Great Dark Beyond" the universe is the Great Dark.
- the Cosmic Chart calls the Great Dark "reality", so reality = GD indeed.
- There can be several universes or alternate universes, and the Nether is connected to all of them, as it's situated outside their borders. So I guess it looks like this.
So this page is basically about the Warcraft multiverse, which in Chronicle is called "cosmos" (cosmic forces, denizens of the cosmos). So I guess my point is : lose the name "reality", as this describes the Great Dark Beyond, and call this page Cosmos to avoid all confusion. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 15:30, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Merge
So there are 3 merge suggestions and I actually think they can all happen together.
We'd have one page, named "Cosmos". There would be one image, the cosmic chart from Chronicles. Then there'd be 2 main sections :
- realms : Nether, Great Dark, etc.
- -sub section : other realms : Helheim, Halls of Valor, etc. <- the content of the Plane article.
- (or, "other realms" redirects to the Plane article)
- the cosmic forces : Light/Void/Life/Death, etc. <- the content of the Magic article.
- -sub section : the different types of magic : Fel, Arcane, Necromancy, etc.
- (or, the sub section redirects to the Magic article)
- possibly denizens of the cosmos -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 04:51, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- I'd like if plane would also be merged into Cosmos. With Chronicle info + the other sub-realms, it would be enough to clean that ancient page. --Mordecay (talk) 10:55, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah, or it could remain but only as an RPG page since there's still quite some things about it there. The little canon info there is would be moved to Cosmos and look clean.-- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 12:57, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Yea, it is a question of whether we want separate articles of canon and RPG I don't mind either of the suggestions. Although that brings me to question whether Divine and Holy should be merged or kept separately (there are no two articles for arcane, tho). --Mordecay (talk) 13:08, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- I honestly don't know, this page will cover a lot of things and I fear that adding tons of RPG info to it would be overwhelming. If everyone is okay with merging Plane into Cosmos I can do it myself.
- As for your remark, Divine in the RPG is different from Holy in the lore (it encompasses more things than just the Light), so they get separate articles - Divine had literally only 1 single line of lore, and all the rest was RPG, so we put that canon line in the Holy page and left the rest there. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 14:21, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- There has to be a better name than one from a comment by Algalon the Observer. I think the Plane and Magic pages are enough. If there are things not in the Chronicle image, then not every plane has a type of magic, so the need to merge them decreases.--SWM2448 18:16, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- What do you mean ? Chronicle calls it "Cosmos" many times. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 19:39, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- There has to be a better name than one from a comment by Algalon the Observer. I think the Plane and Magic pages are enough. If there are things not in the Chronicle image, then not every plane has a type of magic, so the need to merge them decreases.--SWM2448 18:16, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Yea, it is a question of whether we want separate articles of canon and RPG I don't mind either of the suggestions. Although that brings me to question whether Divine and Holy should be merged or kept separately (there are no two articles for arcane, tho). --Mordecay (talk) 13:08, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
If someone wants to update this page it's time, otherwise I'm simply removing all merge/move templates soon. Xporc (talk) 14:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Cosmos
- Copied from User talk:Sandwichman2448#Cosmos.
Hey, as everyone seems to have agreed on the talk page, could you move Cosmos to 
[Cosmos] or something else so that Universe can become Cosmos ? -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 06:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- The conversation died before a consensus was formed.--SWM2448 06:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Chronicle established that universe meant Great Dark, and that Warcraft in its entirety was Cosmos, can't debate facts I believe. No one opposed it, do you see any point for opposition ? -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 06:19, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- For the name, you are correct. For the page to exist at all, I have serious doubts. People saw the "cosmos" image from Chronicle, and apparently thought that it needed multiple pages based around it: we have universe, magic, and plane. Each plane now has a type of magic related to it. We either need one page or two, not three. I actually want just magic and plane, but I also want to hear good arguments for a single page, which can be called "cosmos".--SWM2448 06:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- There may be a misunderstanding, I'm not asking for a fourth page. You quoted three, universe, magic and plane, I'm suggesting we just rename "universe" into "cosmos", the number doesn't change, you just have to move it since it's admin-locked I think. The rest is another debate for another day since it doesn't have anything to do with this renaming. But since you're mentioning it I'm personally on the side of having less pages. Plane may be incorporated into Cosmos for example, since planes are part of the cosmos, reducing the number to 2. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 06:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Where did I say fourth?--SWM2448 06:52, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Instead of debating here, maybe you guys could take it to the relevant page? I have my own opinions but I'd rather give them there. Xporc (talk) 07:58, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thing is everyone including SWM agrees about the renaming so I just want it to happen, I don't want to debate the rest, Sandwichman. Please move it so that Universe is renamed Cosmos, as for its potential content, planes and stuff, we'll discuss that on the talk page, that's not what I came for, I'm here just for the renaming. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 08:36, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- I moved it. Now can I get rid of it?--SWM2448 18:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Where else could one find information about all that makes up the world of Warcraft on a cosmic level? Mentions of "multiverse" should link here for example. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 03:06, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- We could say "Planes, collectively the Cosmos."--SWM2448 03:27, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- I believe it would make more sense to incorporate Plane into Cosmos instead of the other way around because of 2 reasons : 1) planes are part of the cosmos 2) the cosmos is not just made of planes but also different kinds of magics/energies. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 03:44, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- This is an extremely slippery slope that could potentially never end. Planets are also part of the cosmos, would we merge that page as well? Continents are part of planets, merge those in? Zones are part of continents, merge those in? The argument that X is a subset of Y therefore X should be merged with Y is not a good one. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:55, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- The other suggestion made above is to simply put links to the existing articles instead of merging them all. And I was just responding to "include cosmos into plane", saying if it were to happen it'd make more sense to include plane into cosmos. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- Magic and Plane are definitely distinct enough concepts that they should stand on their own. This page, though... Eh, I'm kind of ambivalent about it. I think it might be possible to add enough additional content for it to stand on its own as a distinct concept, but in its current state it could also just as easily be merged into Plane and Great Dark Beyond. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:03, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
- The other suggestion made above is to simply put links to the existing articles instead of merging them all. And I was just responding to "include cosmos into plane", saying if it were to happen it'd make more sense to include plane into cosmos. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 05:26, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- This is an extremely slippery slope that could potentially never end. Planets are also part of the cosmos, would we merge that page as well? Continents are part of planets, merge those in? Zones are part of continents, merge those in? The argument that X is a subset of Y therefore X should be merged with Y is not a good one. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:55, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- I believe it would make more sense to incorporate Plane into Cosmos instead of the other way around because of 2 reasons : 1) planes are part of the cosmos 2) the cosmos is not just made of planes but also different kinds of magics/energies. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 03:44, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- We could say "Planes, collectively the Cosmos."--SWM2448 03:27, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- Where else could one find information about all that makes up the world of Warcraft on a cosmic level? Mentions of "multiverse" should link here for example. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 03:06, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
- I moved it. Now can I get rid of it?--SWM2448 18:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Thing is everyone including SWM agrees about the renaming so I just want it to happen, I don't want to debate the rest, Sandwichman. Please move it so that Universe is renamed Cosmos, as for its potential content, planes and stuff, we'll discuss that on the talk page, that's not what I came for, I'm here just for the renaming. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 08:36, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Instead of debating here, maybe you guys could take it to the relevant page? I have my own opinions but I'd rather give them there. Xporc (talk) 07:58, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Where did I say fourth?--SWM2448 06:52, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- There may be a misunderstanding, I'm not asking for a fourth page. You quoted three, universe, magic and plane, I'm suggesting we just rename "universe" into "cosmos", the number doesn't change, you just have to move it since it's admin-locked I think. The rest is another debate for another day since it doesn't have anything to do with this renaming. But since you're mentioning it I'm personally on the side of having less pages. Plane may be incorporated into Cosmos for example, since planes are part of the cosmos, reducing the number to 2. -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 06:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- For the name, you are correct. For the page to exist at all, I have serious doubts. People saw the "cosmos" image from Chronicle, and apparently thought that it needed multiple pages based around it: we have universe, magic, and plane. Each plane now has a type of magic related to it. We either need one page or two, not three. I actually want just magic and plane, but I also want to hear good arguments for a single page, which can be called "cosmos".--SWM2448 06:30, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
- Chronicle established that universe meant Great Dark, and that Warcraft in its entirety was Cosmos, can't debate facts I believe. No one opposed it, do you see any point for opposition ? -- MyMindWontQuiet (talk) 06:19, 27 February 2017 (UTC)