Talk:Aggro/Archive1

Aggro

I marked this as stub since for now it's only a repost which needs proper formatting and the addition of some druid information. Stilpu 01:08, 8 Feb 2006 (EST)

I'm surprised this hasn't generated more discussion. I have a few questions though.

• How far does threat extend?
• Regain over time (HoT and MoT, Renew and Blessing of Wisdom as an example of each) seems to be a little wonky in my understanding. Who's threat increases as a result of casting one of the two above spells?

If there are no answers yet, I'll see if I can find them.

--Somori 09:48, 16 March 2006 (EST)

* No limit AFAIK

* Healer/buffer, of course.

--Stilpu 10:16, 16 March 2006 (EST)

* Hmm, I think I asked the wrong question and I'm misunderstanding something. Where does threat get stored and when does it get calculated? If I (Player A) stand just far enough to avoid aggroing Mob A and heal Player B who is not in my party/raid and melee fighting Mob B standing 20 yards from me in the other direction?

In ascii art (pheer my l33t skills ;) ):

MA----40yds---->PA---20yds-->PB-MB

I can see a number of scenarios. 1) My threat on Mob B's hatelist increases as I have used a healing effect on a player on it's hatelist. 2) My threat rating on both Mob B's and Mob A's hatelist increases by the same amount as I have used a healing effect (this is why I asked how far threat extends) 3) My threat on Mob B's hatelist increases by more than my threat on Mob A's hatelist because I used a healing effect and threat attenuates with distance. 4) I generate no threat, as noone in my party is in combat with any mob.

* So, for example, I've cast Blessing of Wisdom (giving 36 mana/5 seconds) on J. Random. Priest, my threat increases by 18 every 5 seconds, correct?

Sorry to be so picky, but I'm fascinated by these mechanics right now. I have to know, dammit. --Somori 11:04, 16 March 2006 (EST)

Test it out, by all means, but I can't feel any doubt that your option 1 is correct. Mob A is unaggroed so won't be aware of what you're doing. Distance is irrelevant. You can easily gain aggro from another party's mob. --Sasja 03:26, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

1) If I understand game mechanics enough, and I think I do, the game stores the name of the (de)buffing player with it. Any threat this buff causes will be awarded to that player on the moment that effect occurs. (Example: A Warlock will only receive threat from his DoT when it ticks and for the damage it does at the moment the tick occurs). Further, every mob has a hate list which this threat is stored and he checks to see who has aggro etc. As long as Player A is within the "fighting range" of the mob (the range a mob will travel to pursue you) he will happily attack that player. But if you out-aggro him or that player happens to get another date with the lovely spirit healer, the mob will check if you're in range or not. If not, it'll stick to Player A or de-aggro, depending why you gained aggro. So if Mob A has a 50y fighting range, it'll probably run 50y to you, see he ran too far and turn back on Player A. If you buff/heal him after that, the Mob will come after you.

(Note: Not sure if they fixed it, but there used to be a large bug in the Mage's Ignite debuff (40% of damage done converted to a DoT on a critical Fire spell, stacks 5 times) which only saved 1 player name as "owner" of the buff, namely the first Mage to get the debuff on the mob. This causes lots of threat problems as other Mages keep refreshing the DoT while 1 Mage gets accounted for all the damage (and usually dies a horrible dead due to the threat gained from it))

2) there is no threat reduction associated with range. There is only a limit as to how far a mob will go before it de-aggros (which seems to be pretty close to infinite in instances)

3) Just to make it clear: threat get's calculated on the moment the player gets a tick from the buff and for the amount the tick actually does. (So Mortal strike doesn't just cut your healing in half, it also cuts your threat in half :)

--Guran 13:23, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Threat Values

Why were the threat amounts for Sunder and the various skills increased? According to the source article Sunder should only generate 260 threat.

I copied the table from the Threat article. I'm not sure where the editors of that article got their values. But Thottbot lists Distracting Shot as generating 600 threat and I thought that it sounded more plausible that the warrior abilities gave more threat than a hunter ability rather than less. I'm suspecting that the threat for damage, healing etc. has to be adjusted accordingly.--Zootsko 12:23, 23 March 2006 (EST)

I've tested [Distracting Shot] (rank 1) and the damage required to draw aggro from it does not correspond to the value listed on Thottbot. Thottbot must use some other scale for threat but I can't figure it out from the current data. Maybe someone else can? See my research on the matter for details.--Zootsko 00:02, 25 March 2006 (EST)

The values in the table from the Threat article seems to stem from Cop's report on threat. --Zootsko 07:09, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

yeah, someone changed the numbers to reflect Cop's, without changing the healing or aggro numbers. Cop used 1 point of healing on a priest iwth subtlety as his unit of threat, and had a warrior in defensive stance doing damage. All of the numbers are off by a factor of 4: "1.45 * 1.1 / 0.8 / 0.5 = 3.9875. Pretty darn close to 4. " (from Kenco's original post). I'm correcting the numbers back to their correct value.

That "someone" was me, as I wrote in the comments just above yours. Feel free to change the numbers back to Kenco's but you'll still have the trouble with the abilities not tested by Kenco (like Distracting Shot) --Zootsko 14:15, 17 April 2006 (EDT)

I'm looking skeptically at threat generated per point of healing gained and per point of healing cast (0.5 per point each). By these numbers, healing the tank (only) should never draw mobs off him, without requiring him to even tap all the mobs in sequence. - In other words, a tank that has gained aggro should be able to simply attack one creature at a time, and the priest should be able to spam heal him as much as she likes, without fear of drawing aggro off the tank (since for every 0.5 threat gained in the casting, the tank will gain the same threat in being healed). Obviously this is not true. ----Godsoflust 07:44, 11 July 2006 (EDT)

As the table says, threat increase only for certain health-gain effects. Receiving healing is not one of them. --Zootsko 11:56, 11 July 2006 (EDT)

One topic of threat that I'm curious about are the Warlock spells Siphon Life and Life Drain. What is the threat generated per point of damage dealt? Example: a warlock's life drain does 100 points of damage and heals 100 points on the lock .. how much threat does that generate? I would assume 100 + (100/2) for a total of 150 threat. However, what if the warlock is already at full health .. do the mechanics properly give only 100 threat to the warlock or does it mistakenly give 150? --Gobzoot 16:55, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Kenco's report

Can someone explain to me what Kenco means by the following:

"Let the tank pull! Then he will be first on all the mobs' hatelists, and his taunts will
always return aggro to him."

Does he mean that by letting the tank pull he will generate the most threat because he started early? --Zootsko 12:14, 24 March 2006 (EST)

It means that since the tank go aggro first, and gained threat first with the mob, he/she will have starting out more threat then (say) a hunter who pulled. Although in the long run it won't make much of a difference, early on it will help keep the aggro on the tank instead of someone else. --Toloran 13:13, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

That was also what I figured initially but he writes "then ... his taunts will always return aggro to him." (my emphasis)? A bit confused here. --Zootsko 13:42, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

This is correct. When a warrior taunts their threat is pemanantly altered to be the same as the person with the highest threat on the mobs "hatelist", as well as forcing the mob to attack the warrior for a few seconds. Once the taunts "forced attack" period is over the mob will attack the person with the highest threat on the hatelist. Since the warrior has equal threat to one other player then the mob uses the only other category it has for deciding who to attack, which is the order in which the players were added to its "hatelist", therefore if the warrior pulls, after a taunt (and assuming no one else causes any threat) the mob will stay on the warrior after the taunt. Try this experiment, warrior body pulls a mob, does no damage, nothing to the mob other than running to it and gettting its attention, then have another player hit the mob for ages causing as much threat as they like, then that player stops attacking and the warrior taunts but does not attack the mob, the mob will stay on the warrior after the "forced attack" period of the taunt has ended. In short, let the tank pull. --Glegnar 08:03, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

That's very interesting theory here. But a few days ago I saw somewhere here a theory, that after Taunt debuff fades, mob reverts to whoever it attacked before taunting unless tank generated enough threat to steal aggro (110%). As I see you suggest that mob resets his aggro completely as a result of Taunt and then chooses whoever is top on the hate list with earlier entry being preferred. I however have a theory that when Taunt debuff fades mob activates switching 110%/130% rules and therefore it's hard to steal aggro from tank in general. May it be correct in this way, or what you say is more accurate to real situation? Because, among things if what you say is correct, if during the Taunt debuff previous top player on hatelist generates any threat he would be top at the end of debuff, or does Taunt keep Warrior on top of hatelist for its entire duration? --Drundia 23:13, 6 May 2006 (EDT)

Here's another possibility: What if the player who pulled is exempt from the 110%/130% rule? That is, what if the mob will switch aggro back to the puller if he exceeds the Threat of whoever's currently on top of its hate list by any amount? This would explain why a fading Taunt seems not to return aggro to the previous target if the Taunter was the one who pulled the mob initially. -- Tracer 17:57, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

Mobs don't save who pulled initial aggro, that would be inefficient memory usage. There is a much easier way to see who pulled, namely the first person on his hate list. Example: A Hunter pulls with Distracting Shot (=threat equal to 600 damage). The tank taunts the mob, Tanks threat is now 600 as well. After the debuff expires, the mob checks his hate list. First player: Hunter with 600 threat, second player: Warrior with 600 threat, does not exceed Hunter. End of hate list: Hunter gains aggro. Hunter uses Feign Death, gets removed from the hate list and comes back up at the end once he generates threat again. Stupid Hunter shoots 2 Distracting shots at the mob, he gets added to the bottom of the hate list and gets 1200 threat. He gains aggro, the tank taunts again. After 3 seconds the debuff fades, the mob will stick to the Warrior. Both the Warrior and the Hunter have 1200 threat. It's that easy :D

--Guran 13:39, 11 December 2006 (EST)

The Warrior would have 1200 * 1.1 threat, actually... 1320 (ie 110% of the Hunter's aggro), and after the first taunt, would have 660 aggro KelvinFrost 13:07, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Shaman Threat Abilities

Does anyone have any data on how much additional threat the shamans [Rockbiter Weapon] and [Earth Shock] abilities generate? They both generate some but I have no idea how much exactly.

Second point about Earth Shock. Does it deal more threat when it counters a spell or does it not make a difference? I am currently testing this point but my shaman is only lvl 40 at the moment so I won't get good data. --Toloran 13:19, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

Good questions. Again, if you need assistance with testing feel free to contact me through my talk page and I'll set up a level 1 alt om your server so we can run some tests together. The Rockbiter Weapon Proc has an interesting "Designer Note" in its tooltip description:

"Designer Note: Effect 1 points = desired threat per second, before misses."

As I read it, it says that the effect's 'value' parameter indicates the threat generated per second, not counting misses. For rank 1 of the spell for instance, threat per second would increase by 6, if each strike hits. We would need to test this as threat values from Thottbot are Research:Report on the internal threat index|known to be special. --Zootsko 14:06, 3 April 2006 (EDT)

Rockbiter 7 is 72 Threat per second, dealt as a weapon proc on sucessful hit. That is, each hit deals extra threat equal to 72x(weapon_speed).

AFAIK, all effects that silence do not generate extra aggro if a spell was interupted. So earthshock just generates double threat from it's damage. It would be interesting to see what threat is genereated by pummal/kick/etc that require the target to be casting.--Stfrn 06:11, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Pulling

Which abilities cause a passive mob to attack a character? Detect Magic, for instance, doesn't even though it debuffs the mob.

To my knowledge, any ability which somehow interacts with the mob (causing damage, modifying mob's attributes, attempting to deny access to some of its own abilities etc.) Abilities which don't interact with the mob, although they do show up as debuffs (such as the Detect Magic, Mind Vision, Hunter's Mark, Mind Soothe - although this can be classified as an interaction, since it reduces mob's aggro range, but I suppose it's obvious that it can only be useful if it's a "peaceful" spell - abilities) Stilpu 07:29, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Yes, there probably isn't a strict class of spells which cause aggro. Maybe every spell has a hidden 'aggro flag' or something? --Zootsko 07:43, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Pickpocket is definitely not a peaceful spell ;) User:CrazyJack/Sig 02:50, 26 January 2007 (EST)

A druid's demoralizing roar will trigger peaceful things to attack if they're in range, even if the beastie is something like a frog. I've had frogs and rabbits attack me before, but I mostly notice because they beat themselves to death on my thorns in short order... --Azaram 05:53, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Rapid Threat Increase

On the drawing aggro section it has 4 ways you can pull aggro, however, it seems like rapid threat increase can draw aggro as well, even if you don't exceed the main tanks threat. For example, my guild just started using KLH Threat Meter, which seems to be extremely accurate. However, I have been able to pull aggro off the main tank when I am significantly lower on the threat meter, by blowing recklessness and constantly executing. After pulling aggro I can stop attacking and the main tank will taunt and be able to easily reestablish control. Has anyone experimented with this? --Ralthor 23:44, 10 April 2006 (EDT)

The fact that the tank was able to taunt the mob back onto himself and easily reestablish control was probably due to the fact that the tank pulled. It seems to be the case that the puller is exempt from the +10% threat rule -- the puller will draw aggro if he exceeds the current target's Threat by even 1 point, and Taunt always raises your Threat level to be equal to that of the current target. -- Tracer 18:22, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

I checked the most recent version of KLH Threat Meter and Execute damage has a 1.25 threat multiplier on it. Maybe at the time Ralthor posted, that hadn't been discovered yet? - Taliafears 16:05, 20 December 2006 (EST)

threat

Is there any difference in threat from heroic strike rank 8/9 ?

rank 8 is listed as 145,, but that is obviously excluding the damage it does. CJ 03:11, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

I added the distance modifier (10/30%) but i cant remember what is called melle distance. is it 10-15-20 yards? to be on the safe side, i put down 20yards. but if anyone knows, fix it.

and yape, i noted something like that on hakkar. did a few sunders, and yet a rather small heal made hakkar to run to the healer. need to check it.

jobu

Cat-form druids = rogues, threatwise?

Damage inflicted by Rogues only causes 80% as much Threat as damage caused by most other classes, to make up for the fact that the Rogue is dealing damage at melee range, and thus only needs to exceed the mob's current target by 10% to draw aggro (instead of 30% for ranged attackers). Warriors in Battle and Berserker stances have the same melee damage threat reduction.

My question is, do Druids get the same reduced-Threat generation for their melee damage that Rogues do?

Answer: Now they do! Check the new patch notes under Druids.

it's a 29% threat reduction now. CJ 02:17, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

(It has also been thought possible that blizzard meant 20% and not 29% since this seems unfair. It could have been the result of an input error since the "9" key is so close to the "0" key on the keyboard.)

distance as threat

the 10/30% more threat to pull agro issue.

I think it belong here as a threat modifier. Since its realy say how much threat each person can do. While pyzno(something) deleted my entry.

What do you think. It should be here or not?

(check history to see it under my name)

P.s. This is double stupid cause there are otehr stuff in this formulas. So I will just pass it to another place in the article. Though, I still think it should be in Threat Modifier (tell me what do you think)

Jobu14

It's not a threat modifier. It's an determinant on whether you will gain aggro. Threat is an actual number that is quantifiable. Distance does not change how much threat you get per action, but rather how much threat is required to draw aggro. AS SUCH, it belongs in the aggro section where it belongs. Pzychotix 09:47, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Pzychotix is right. Consider this: Mage stands right next to the mob and and blasts it with fireballs, doing 3000 damage (and therefore 3000 Threat). Tank currently also has 3000 Threat. If the mage subsequently casts a 301 damage fireball on the mob while standing next to it, he'll draw aggro. But if the mage runs away to a safe distance and casts an 899 damage fireball on the mob, he won't draw aggro. Where the mage was standing when he inflicted the earlier Threat doesn't matter. -- Tracer 18:17, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

Revenge

Is the "Revenge" listed in the "Threat level increasing abilities" table supposed to be Rank 5, or Rank 6? -- Tracer 18:26, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

Less is More?

"The exact formula is not yet known, but it is more than the Threat/number of mobs. So if a tank holds 5 mobs and receives a heal, the threat on each mob will be less than Threat(heal)/5."

This excerpt seems to directly contradict itself. As I understand it from my readings here, I think it ought to read

"The exact formula is not yet known, but it is more than the Threat/number of mobs. So if a tank holds 5 mobs and receives a heal, the threat on each mob will be greater than Threat(heal)/5."

I'm only hesitant to make the change myself as I'm still learning the intricacies of threat, and I'm not sure if this is saying something different from what I think it means.

--Ayamy 16:03, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

In addition to that, as a possible formula which would give a threat greater than Threat(heal)/5 the page suggests Threat(heal)/10 (where there are 5 mobs). Dividing by 10 is smaller than dividing by 5 however. Has anyone tested heals when there are multiple mobs?

--Ethorad 13:05, 14 September 2006 (GMT)

I read this with some confusion at first, but it makes sense if you read his sentence as meaning not that 'there is more threat than that', but that 'there is more going on than simply dividing by number of mobs.' Since I haven't done any testing on this I don't want to change the sentence until I can confirm that threat is indeed *lower* on all mobs, but I will do so soon. --Scudmarx 09:14, 14 January 2007 (EST)

threat sorting

The current listings need to be properly sorted : Items, Abilities, Spells, Talents. for clarity. it's a bit mix'n math at the moment.

• Also, where did the page with "threat per rage" go.. i can't seem to find it anymore. meaning we need to link these 2 pages better somehow.
• And, [Growl], [Torment], [Cower], etc, values need to be added to this page. (anything you can find)

CJ 08:44, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

• Effects : health gained, damage done, mana gained, rage gained
• Spells & Abilities : Searing pain, Suffering, Faery fire, Feint, Cower, Totems
• Talents : Feral instinct, Defiance, Arcane Subtlety
• Items : Set bonus, trinkets

Several abilities, items and spells also seem to be missing still : http://www.thottbot.net/?e=Threat this gives a good list of stuff we can still add. CJ 03:38, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

priest buffs: power word shield and power word fortitude

I have done some preliminary testing on a few priest buffs:

• power word fortitude appears to be related to the amount of stamina granted
• divine spirit appears to be smilarly related to the amount of the attribute granted
• power word shield appears to be 10% of the points of absorption granted

Testing done with a lv 60 hunter unarmed meleeing mobs in Gnomeregan with a lv 60 priest casting various ranks of DS/PWF/PWS.

KarlThePagan 13:44, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

formula changed? or typo?

The new threat table written in wiki markup (Revision as of 07:51, 18 October 2006) claims a different amount of threat (1 threat per healing point) than did the old table in HTML format (0.5 threat per healing point).

Was new information gathered in the 11 minutes since the previous revision? Or was this a typo, CrazyJack?

lizard1959 12:41 29 October 2006 (GMT+10)

Suspect it was a typo o_O fixing it now CJ 03:06, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Mind control

Priest - Mind control causes significant aggro. Mage- Polymorph does cause a small ammount.. exact values would be nice. CJ 05:43, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Less than a sunder, that much I know :-) KelvinFrost 13:09, 4 January 2007 (EST)

As far as mind control goes, "significant aggro" doesn't even do it justice, in my opinion. In my tanking experience whenever a priest mind controlled a mob and used it to kill other mobs, I had a VERY difficult time trying to beat the threat generated by the priest once it broke. I was tanking as a shaman at the time and was keeping aggro just fine, but a long term mind control was impossible to take back before the mob died. Because of this I suspect that the threat caused by mind control is related to the amount of threat-causing activities performed by the mob while mind controlled. It's possible that the amount of threat generated by the MC'ed mob is transfered to the priest on a 1:1 basis when mind control breaks. Something to think about. --Ayamy 21:02, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Mage aggro?

Mage - All threat is reduced by 100% with every spell. Huh?, source or confirmation,... who added this? sounds like bullshit tbh. CJ 06:00, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Sounds like BS to me. --Stfrn 06:11, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Deleted, for now. CJ 09:11, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Update plan

Planning to modify this page a bit. Let me know if it looks ok.

• Make a table for the items / Set bonusses

CJ 06:29, 30 October 2006 (EST)

• Also, where did the page with "threat per rage" go.. i can't seem to find it anymore, but i'm "sure" it used to exist. We need to link these 2 pages better somehow.

CJ 07:45, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Found it : http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Threat&oldid=167375 , Anyone mind referring why the values appear to be different from the ones on the Formulas page though? CJ 09:02, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Threat generated on a single target
Skill	Threat	Rage cost
[Shield Slam]	1950	30
[Revenge]	1370	5
[Sunder Armor]	1050	12-15
[Shield Bash]	910	10
[Heroic Strike]	890	12-15 + loss of next rage-gaining attack
[Cleave]	500	20
[Thunder Clap]	290	16-20
[Demoralizing Shout]	175	10

These numbers assume a warrior in defensive stance, and the unit of threat is 1 point of healing from a priest with subtlety. They also include the 130% modifier required to pull aggro at range. These are Cop's numbers. Kenco's numbers are measured in damage, do not include stances, and are a factor of 4 different from these numbers. These numbers also include the damage dealt by the ability as well as the armor reduction of the mob used for testing.

Note that Heroic Strike, in addition to costing 12-15 rage, also results in the loss of rage-generation from it's replaced regular swing, increasing it's effective cost somewhat.

Skills sorted by threat per rage (tpr) effeciency on a single target
Skill	Threat Per Rage
[Revenge]	274 tpr
[Shield Bash]	91 tpr
[Sunder Armor]	70-88 tpr
[Heroic Strike]	59-74 tpr (excludes rage loss from replaced swing)
[Shield Slam]	65 tpr
[Cleave]	25 tpr
[Demoralizing Shout]	18 tpr
[Thunder Clap]	15-18 tpr

• Regular physical damage in [Defensive Stance] (with [Defiance]): 1.45 threat per point of damage.

  That's with Kenco's threat values, the above values are with cop's data, which bases threat points on heling done by a priest with max talented threat reduction. It's actually 1.45 times threat generated in defensive stance, and 0.80 in Battle & Berserker Stance--Guran 13:50, 11 December 2006 (EST)

• I'm sad to see that you have chosen to remove the distinction between 'threat' and 'threat level' that I had in the original tables. Now the values are all mixed up and it's not really clear which numbers used for which calculations. Zootsko 15:37, 11 January 2007 (EST)

Innate Ability

Went ahead and moved Innate Ability to the correct spelling and fixed it in the table, as well. I'm curious, though, where is the source for this information? I haven't heard of classes having passive abilities that reduce threat before. --Tusva 09:11, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Damn my spelling. :P CJ 09:12, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Multiple Spell Ranks

OK here's the deal.

• We got Rank X-Y of several spells, not all have a listed threat value yet.
• I Suggest we only list the highest rank (1 for BC and 1 for Retail) of each spell on the Threat formulas page. and list the threat values for any other tank (including the highest one) on that spell's detail page.

This should cut down on the list somewhat,, and most people will only be interested in the highest value anyway. CJ 10:04, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Battleshout

does:

• Booming Voice
• Improved battle shout

improve the aggro generated from battle shout? User:CrazyJack/Sig 04:58, 13 November 2006 (EST)

Further Investigation

It lists Intimidation at +580. It that value true for all levels? It seems to me like it would make more sense if it was proportional to the pet's level (just like the mana cost is proportional to the hunter's level.)Drowsong 23:30, 13 November 2006 (EST)

According to thottbot, the spell effect is: http://thottbot.com/?sp=24394 which lists the 580 threat. So my guess is, it costs more mana, but doesn't gain extra threat with level.

As for: Dreamless sleep potion || Clears all aggro. ?( can someone verify this? )

on the thottbot spell page( http://thottbot.com/?sp=15822 ) there is no mention of any aggro dump/drop etc. So if mobs stop attacking, it's the same as not attacking targets who are stunned/CCed. And of course, you are not gainning any threat while asleep, but you might gain threat from the mana/health recovery... so I don't know :P --Stfrn 04:37, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Re: As for: Dreamless sleep potion || Clears all aggro. ?( can someone verify this? )

Previous poster is sniffing the right track. You are counted as "Incapacitated" or "Crowd Controlled" by the AI while under the effect of Dreamless Sleep, and therefore you are no longer a viable target.

Of course, this effect is temporary, (as per the Limited Invulnerability Potion, where you are "Immune" and also no longer a viable target) and you will be gaining threat from the Health/Mana restoration, so you will (unless someone else gets a higher threat total than you during your "Incapacitated" duration) still be pummeled after the duration has expired.

I don't have the nerve of editing this onto the main page, since I'm fuzzy about the details, but I reckon you'll end up with something like "Incapacitated/Crowd Controlled, thus being an invalid target, but gaining 'Healing From Potion*0.5-Modifiers' and 'Mana From Potion*0.5-Modifiers' Threat during the duration."

Should also be added: This effect will in no way prevent a mob you are fighting solo stop pummeling your sorry behind, since they do not have a secondary target to switch to. You will, with luck, gain one tick of Health/Mana regeneration from such a potion. --Lillfot 21:01, 19 February 2007 (GMT+1)

New Data - Devastate

What on Earth does "Devastate Rank 1 (lvl 50) 73 72,8-73.4 threat" mean?

--Tracer 21:14, 19 December 2006 (EST)

It means the innate threat for devastate rank 1 is 73. The 72.8-73.4 is just the range from their test data. - Taliafears 15:44, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Assuming how many sunders? Or is this + the additional threat, regardless of the sunder multiplier? KelvinFrost 13:02, 4 January 2007 (EST)

• Everything I've read suggests that devastate innate threat does not depend on sunders. This may be a bug, or simply bad tooltip wording. - Taliafears 11:32, 8 January 2007 (EST)

• Devastate causing less threat than sunder sounds fishy. Is this saying that Devastate on a 5 sundered mob will only cause 101 + white damage threat? Why would they put it in the game if it caused less hate then sunder? If its true then its a waste to get it. Also why do the pre 2.0.3 numbers for devastate go down as levels go up? --Chupa 04:56, 19 January 2007 (EST)

• I was confused by this as well, so i decided to look it up on the forums - Turns out the 101 number is JUST base threat and don't include bonus threat from sunders. There was a bug with the ability that made the base threat drop in higher ranks that they fixed in 2.0.3 - in which they made the base value for all ranks 101. Reading the tooltip closer the wording is confusing but does imply that sunders increase the threat done independently of damage done. --Gribble 3:03 pm, Feb 2, 2007

• Is there any information on the bonus threat from the applied sunders? --Chupa 11:35, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Taunt

It's my understanding that the weird behavior of taunt that favored the warrior pulling was fixed in 1.11. It now just gives the warrior aggro and raises his threat to match the person who had aggro. Can someone confirm this so we can get it onto the page? - Taliafears 15:50, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Maul (Rank 7) - post2.03 base Threat

assumed formula: Threat (T) = (T_dmg + T_const)(BearThreatMod)(FIThreatMod)
T = (T_dmg + T_const)(1.3)(1.15)
T = 1.495(T_dmg) + 1.495(T_const) (incorrect, see below)

• Bear form Threat Mod should be 1.45, the talent is additive, not multiplicative. This is tested and confirmed by myself. My testing has put the threat bonus at 207. With a 369 maul, the druid with me (in caster form) did not pull aggro at 918, and did pull at 920 damage dealt.--Sloppy 01:39, 12 January 2007 (EST)
  • The 1.12 change to threat modifiers was tested by Kenco to be multiplicative for Warriors, and I don't see any evidence for FI to remain additive. Have you explicitly tested FI behavior since v1.12 release? Regardless, I'll try to setup a test tonight on chars that have not allocated talent points. Should be able to confirm both FI behavior and the true Maul base threat. --Phaze 13:06, 12 January 2007 (EST)
  • I've ran a test for this, and reached the same results you have: Feral Instincts is additive, and Maul (rank 7) static threat is 207. Correct formula for 3/3 FI is:
    T = (T_dmg + T_const)(1.45) --Phaze 20:35, 12 January 2007 (EST)
    • Actually, I may have been hasty. Can we be certain by the numbers that it's 207, and not 208? I know from previous times exploring the inner math, sometimes WoW will round normally, other times it will ceil or floor. From your results, you have a lower bound at 206.8, and the lowest upper bound is 207.5. If we do round normally, then 206.8 should've rounded to 207, and aggro should've been pulled. Same if we ceil. But what if we floor? In that case, 206.8 would go to 206, and the 207.5 would've dropped to 207, and pulled. Needs further testing? --Sloppy 02:07, 13 January 2007 (EST)
      • If a rounding/ceiling/floor operation is occurring, it's most likely happening as the final computation of the threat generated from the Maul: after the static threat is added, and after the threat mods. The most likely operation is flooring, via the float-to-int conversion. Assuming one of these is the case ->
        We can plug 206 into the best lower-bound sample: (275 + 206)(1.3)(1.1) = 687.83. If rounding/ceil: 688; if floor: 687. Since this data sample did not pull agro at 689 damage, none of these possibilities are valid. C is not 206.
        Plugging 208 into the best upper-bound sample: (269 + 208) (1.45)(1.1) = 760.815. The data sample shows agro pulled with 760 threat. If rounding/ceil, the Maul threat is 761, which is too large for the data. If flooring: 760, which works iff the agro threshold is "equal to 1.1x threat" and not "greater than 1.1x threat". I suspect that the threshold is triggered only on surpassing the necessary value, not just matching it. This suggests to me that 208 is too large, but does not disprove it. Still, I'm satisfied with C=207; a 0.5% margin of error works well enough for me. ;) --Phaze 13:27, 15 January 2007 (EST)

EDIT: old data points (and corresponding math) snipped out. For most recent test data and results, see: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=64036507&postId=653245413&sid=1#26.
The new value was added to: http://www.wowwiki.com/Template:Aggro:IncrementModifierTable

--Phaze 20:35, 12 January 2007 (EST)