Forum:Character naming: Arthas Menethil or Lich King?

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<poll> How should we name the current state of the Lich King? Arthas Menethil. Lich King. </poll>

Something I've been wondering:

For character lists placed after the ending of Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, when including Arthas, how should we name him? Arthas Menethil or Lich King?. And the problem started:

Remember that, after the ending of RotLK, Ner'zhul doesn't exist, and there's only Arthas.

So, should we consider Ner'zhul still a part of Arthas, or treat the being as only Arthas?

Another case of this could be Illidan and Gul'dan. Illidan consumed Gul'dan's skull, but he's still Illidan, and not a fusion of 2 characters, since only one mind remains.

I believe that Arthas eliminated Ner'zhul's control over the fusion, so he has all the abilities the fused Lich King had, including that of shaman skills, but now he's the only one commanding.

But, anyway, I would like to see more opinions in this aspect. Also, included a poll for if things doesn't seem to solve up.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I vote for the name "Arthas the Lich King"

Rhapsodia (talk) 18:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Ideally, I wouldn't have anything done to the articles, they work fine as they are now, especially since everything is updated. And the ending to RotLK can be read different ways, which is the problem with the book, so no I don't think Ner'zhul is gone, I hold by what I always been saying: They merged and Arthas took over. The Illidan/Gul'dan thing is different from my understanding that when Illidan consumed the skull's power, he didn't merge with warlock. He just took his power. The fact that the skull still exists and is used provides evidence to this.

ANYWHO, tl;dr I suggest keeping it the way it is, an Ner'zhul page, an Arthas page, and a Lich King page.--TheUltimate (talk) 00:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

What happened is that they merged, and then Arthas destroyed Ner'zhul, so now, it works like he just took his powers, like Illidan did.--Lon-ami (talk) 15:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I haven't read the RotLK; but its seems a matter of interpretation whether or not Ner'zhul exist after Arthas "murder" him in a dreamstate. The rules for the Emerald Dream are "While within the dream, the traveler can, through exercise of will, view the waking world and to a limited extent interact with it". This might just as well apply to the dreamstate where "Arthas murders the child manifestation of his humanity" It had an effect on the waking world ---> "there's nothing left to redeem".

He might have been similarly able to murder Ner'zhul in that dreamstate. However, in my opinion, he took up the mantle of being the Lich King, he's not likely going to use his mortal name. "Everyone is going to die, cast of this mortal shell for an immortal form". TherasTaneel (talk) 18:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

But that's not the topic . I mean if we should consider him Ner'zhul+Arthas or just Arthas.--Lon-ami (talk) 18:20, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but im just answering on the choices given in the vote: Arthas Menethil - Lich King. But in that case, just Arthas then. TherasTaneel (talk) 21:52, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

They merged, and Arthas "consumed" Ner'zhul (Legends 4). The book also said he killed Matthias, and that little bugger had us running all over Icecrown, which as much as I can tell through in game quests and what not, takes place months afterward he woke up. Adding all this together, Arthas took Ner'zhul's power, but he didn't completely destroy Ner'zhul, as he is now him. Also adding what TherasTanee1 said, because of the book, what we see in game, and what Metzen himself have said, everything is a matter of interpretation. Which is why it sucks.--TheUltimate (talk) 21:48, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Another point in favor of keeping things the way they are is that in-game, the NPC is called "The Lich King." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:53, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Is the original question just referring to the list at the bottom of the Arthas: Rise of the Lich King page? Or what other character lists is this referring to? -- Harveydrone 20:30, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I'm changing the question, since, well, I didn't explain myself well.

The question changes to: How should we name the current lord of the Scourge. It's been something like this:

• 1=Ner'zhul=Ner'zhul
• 2=Ner'zhul+Arthas Menethil=Lich King
• 3=Arthas Menethil=Arthas Menethil or Lich King?

I think I explained myself better this time... Note: It has nothing to do with what's inside of each page, just with how we should name him.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

PS: The poll restarted, vote again, please. Sorry . Also, I like the fact that he's named The Lich King in-game... but that doesn't help us differentiate him from the 2 previous states.--Lon-ami (talk) 11:53, 8 July 2009

Before Kil'Jaeden, he was Ner'zhul, after that he was turned into the Lich King. That is where the Lich King starts. At this point, Lich King and Ner'zhul could both be used, but Lich King was what he was "now".

Then he merged with Arthas and thsoe two became the new Lich King.

Then Arthas consumed Ner'zhul, and he was still the Lich King. At this point, Arthas and the Lich King can be used interchangibly, but he is still the Lich King.

Basically it's the same as what I said before, just now the question was asked differently.--TheUltimate (talk) 21:18, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't think we should use "Lich King" in character lists, as it could be interpreted as referring to either Arthas or Ner'zhul. I would be okay with using "The Lich King (Arthas)". -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:00, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

My main point at naming him Arthas Menethil instead of Lich King is that the race icon is that of the Lich King. The template doesn't work properly now, but before, when clicking on the image, you went to the race article, which was Lich King, meaning putting Lich King would be redundant.--Lon-ami (talk) 09:38, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Imo, Lich King would be more of the title owned by the leader of the Scourge, always existing, no matter who "wears the Helm of Domination". Kil'jaeden created it and "placed Ner'zhul spirit inside the Helm"

First it was "Ner'zhul, the Lich King"

Then, for the time Arthas and Ner'zhul spent sleeping/dreaming it was "Ner'thas, the Lich King" (or "Ar'zhul" hihi)

And now that Nerz'hul has been kicked out the Lich King, it is "Arthas Menethil, the Lich King"

For the vote, I would say we keep the Lich King apart from Ner'zhul and Arthas, like I said before, the Lich King will always be, no matter who "wears Helm of Domination". Because maybe Arthas Menethil will not be the last Lich King...

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 10:09, September 26, 2009 (UTC)