User talk:Thumperward58405

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Gourra (Talk) 20:44, 24 March 2009

Brightly colored egg

I hate to disappoint you, but I think that describing every egg location, for every starting zone, would more than overwhelm the page with content that is largely irrelevant. And really, that is where you are heading with your description. I would venture to say that a few examples of where eggs are hidden would suffice. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:10, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't splitting it to sub-pages be more appropriate than just deleting it? I wasn't aware that we were pushed for space. Thumperward (talk) 17:22, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I would not have a problem putting the details onto sub-pages. We aren't "pushed for space" in the sense that memory is limited. But exact egg placement per zone is a comparatively small detail that would take up the vast majority of the page. I felt that would be a disservice to general users. I'll set up sub pages for you, if you like. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:42, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Done. ... it works better too, if you consider exact locations to be a spoiler. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:48, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Cheers! Thumperward (talk) 18:28, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to jump in here and say that I disagree. One: Subpages are bad. Unequivocally. Two: I don't find the reasoning of "it's the majority of the page" persuasive. So what? We have entire pages dedicated to patches in which said notes have largely nothing to do with each other (aside from the fact that they were changed at the same time); the epitome of "why?". If there's a load time in concern... images alone are many times the size of any text generated by such summaries. Three: Spoilers are also a non-persuasive argument: We don't give notice and I see no reason why someone looking at the page for the Egg should be expecting anything less than "oh, those are the locations". I'll poke Eirik for further.
On another note, Thumperward, are you the Thumperward of Wikipedia (jw)? --Sky (t · c · w) 23:21, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Not entirely sure if you're agitating against sub-pages, or for complete egg locations on the  [Brightly Colored Egg] page, Sky.

I fear you need a better example than the Patch pages. The purpose of the patch pages is specifically to echo (with links where appropriate) the patch notes - specific content not under our control, but thematically one element. "Undocumented patches" are the same, description wise, for all that they are documented by wiki editors instead of by Blizzard. While it is conceivable they could be broken up, there's not a lot of motive to do so. The whole page is dedicated to that level and breadth of detail.

Load time is not at issue with this page, though I have edited other pages due to load times, and recommended similar changes on others. Page size, though, has been an issue on occasion, where subpages made better sense than other solutions.

No, my primary objections are (a) that the sheer size of a completed list (circa 8 screens) changes the focus of the page, (b) that the information is of low utility (by the measure of: will people come to the page to use that information?), and (c) if left incomplete (and due to the expiration of the event, not completable, likely not picked up again the following year), it leaves the page in very poor condition with only "remove the odd growth" or "put a sheet over it until next year" as options.

I don't believe that overwhelming the item's page is a correct answer. I suggested sub-pages as a way to allow the information be recorded and linked to without it turning into the main focus of the page.

Another solution, which memory says that Lunar Festival Elders had used in the past, was referring to a separate non-"sub-page" page. "Lunar Festival Elder Locations" or something like that is what memory throws up, but I can't find such a page (or sign of one having been deleted). Tailoring recipes went this way, with pages such as Apprentice tailoring patterns et al. I'm not convinced that there's a lot of utility to the individual "(rank) tailoring pattern" pages, but I haven't seen much agitation to convert Tailoring or Blacksmithing to the other page's style.

/screed Sorry, Thumperward, for filling your talk page with this. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 00:19, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

No worries. And yes, Sky2024, I'm Thumperward of Wikipedia. Thumperward (talk) 12:06, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for not being intimidated. I'm hoping that you will take up the regions other than Goldshire as well. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:18, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I'm agitating against subpages (the pages that MediaWiki otherwise recognizes as subpages if set to do so) and to have complete location information.
And just as the patch pages are dedicated to the detail of what they're copying, so should the egg page. :P. Ugh, I don't like how the Elders pages ended up (good of you to bring that up! :P).
I have little issue with an article, however, of "Lunar Festival Elders locations", but it would largely be duplicate of the information that we would present in "Lunar Festival Elders". But for the size of a page, there's rarely a good reason to split such related information up in that manner.
As for primary objections: a and b) The focus of the page for most people will be finding the eggs, in my mind (it seems your mileage varies). If necessary, to shorten the page by about a half, poke into something like {{columns}}. As for c) It's a wiki. Things aren't always complete on such things, though it would seem to me that the information for the location of the eggs is out there and it's more an issue of people needing to collect that and place it here.
I have further objections to subpages, but I've enumerated those elsewhere… --Sky (t · c · w) 19:07, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

The focus of the page for most people will be finding the eggs, in my mind (it seems your mileage varies)... You lumped (a) and (b) together without addressing the useability issue. How is the list more useful than actually being there and looking? With Elders, you have what might be termed the 'strategic planning' of deciding where to go, and travel to something out of sight. Once you know "look around at (eg) Goldshire", how much more useful is a precise list? Given coordinate granularity, you can't dispense with references to other objects that you need to see to identify. A better question is, "how can such a list be made useful?"

...If necessary, to shorten the page by about a half, poke into something like {{columns}}. For me, the text (for Goldshire, as an example) extends past halfway across the browser page. Making use of columns would not save any real estate.

As I said, I have no particular attachment to sub-pages. To me, they are just a strategy.

But hey, Thumperward! What do you think? It's your talk page, after all. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:29, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

I think it's pretty academic at this point to be honest; it's maybe worth revisiting if and when more egg locations are filled out, but for now I'm happy to keep the current layout. The pages can always be merged again in future if that's what's decided. Thumperward (talk) 08:10, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

And what is this? You editing other pages when there are egg locations to write down? Fie! It's like you had a life, interests, free will, and so on. Well, we'll have to fix that, won't we? Mush! :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:39, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is desired

Hey, we're pretty much settled on leaving Wikia, but I wanted to see if you had any input. Thanks. --Pcj (TDrop me a line!•C207,729 contributions and counting) 01:50, October 10, 2010 (UTC)