Talk:Northeron/Archive

Northeron is Essentially Hinterlands

Just throwing this out there, but Northeron is basically WarCraft 2's name for the Hinterlands. I suppose Blizzard decided to rename it for WoW to likely avoid confusion with Lordaeron (or maybe they just forgot, it's technically not on any maps... :P). But look at the quotes:

Manual:

From the ominous and foreboding peaks of Northeron come the Dwarven Gryphon Riders.

An homage to the legendary beasts housed within, the colossal aspects of the Gryphon Aviary looms over all that it surveys. Hewn from solid rock by the Dwarves of Northeron, their Aviary inspires dread in the hearts of whomsoever these Gryphon Riders call foe.

Mission Briefings:

The feral Dwarves of the Northeron wildlands have offered the service of their Gryphon Riders to assist in the decimation of the foul Orcs that have desecrated their homeland and slain the leader of the Alliance forces.

Kurdran - Gryphon Rider of Northeron - has returned from his patrol with vital news.

There are also two other quotes from the manual that mention it:

Blizzard: Summoning torrential storms from the frozen Mountains of Northeron, this potent spell calls down a fierce tempest of ice to assault the enemies of the Mage with a flurry of cold blades.

Elven Lumber Mill: Seeking insight into the mysteries of the great ironwood trees of Northeron, the Elves of Quel'thalas constructed Lumber Mills where they became exceptional craftsmen.

Those two are a bit more vague, but could also potentially suggest that the region also contains a larger area (i.e. perhaps the Alterac Mountain range and maybe what is essentially now Eastern Plaguelands). If you go by the WarCraft 2 map specifically, this whole region is generally singled out for the campaigns [1] (granted this map isn't entirely accurate anymore, but no one really uses the name Northeron anymore either :P). Of course, this is just speculation on my part. But it seems pretty clear that any mention of a Wildhammer Dwarf specifically brings up Northeron. So it's pretty safe to say that it's the same as at least the Hinterlands (and honestly, had Blizzard decided to keep the name, I suspect they would have just named the Hinterlands "Northeron" and that's it).

In any case though, I suppose it's technically an obsolete name. Like calling Stormwind "Azeroth"... or calling Eastern Kingdoms.... "Azeroth" :) --WarlockSoL (talk) 14:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Well actually it could be said that Day of the Dragon adds the biggest confusion. Its specific to call the lands of the Wild dwarves, the Aerie Peaks. Northeron is however mentioned in an offhand remark, but appears in a less prominant way than the references to Aerie Peaks, implying that Northeron is either a separate region, or a reigon within the Aerie Peaks. Warcraft III later went on to confirm that the land of the Wildhammer was the Aerie Peaks. The RPG continued references to Aerie Peaks region, but then switched to use of Hinterlands. So while it can be said that Hinterlands and Aerie Peaks are likely one and the same. Its a bit more confusing for the references to Northeron. If one looked at the concept maps, the location of Northeron is more or less between Quel'Thalas and the current eastern Plaguelands... :p.

While I certainly agree that it is a possibility that Northeron and Hinterlands are one and the same (I.E. alternate names for the same place). Its not explicitely confirmed, and it seems that even authors throughout the various sources were confused on the uses.

As for the second issue you bring up, Azeroth. Azeroth as an alternate term of kingdom, that has even appeared into recent sources, the RPG, around 2006 (the book makes reference to both the Kingdom of Azeroth, and the city-state nation of Stormwind). I can't think of any sources that state the whole of the Eastern Kingdoms as "Azeroth" only the southern continent of the Eastern Kingdoms (which is used in the RPG as well). There is a vague reference in the Tides of Darkness novel that could be making reference to either the southern continent, or the alternate name of the kingdom (when it includes all surrounding lands outside of the city state of Stormwind), when it discusses the conjurers of Azeroth that were wiped out by the invading Horde. Although we know that those conjurers were only ever tied to the Kingdom (not the entire continent).Baggins (talk) 20:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't recall what Day of the Dragon says offhand, though it would surprise me if Knaak screwed something up. But you could also say that Northeron might refer to that whole region - in the same way that "The Black Morass" refers to both the Swamp of Sorrows and the Blasted Lands. But I do think you are correct on the confusion - it was actually something that initially confused me, at least until Blizzard explicitly seperated the Ironforge and Wildhammer Dwarves as distint groups. They have not been particularly good at marking the region on any maps (not counting the few other maps that appear in the CE DVD backgrounds, since those were never really made public until that DVD).

Anyways, regarding Azeroth, it was sort of a confusing issue as Blizzard expanded its world. In WarCraft 1, Stormwind was Azeroth. Period. That's all that existed, so that was Azeroth. Then in WarCraft 2, they expanded the continent, and THAT was Azeroth. But Blizzard also wanted to have Azeroth be the name of the world, which got confusing. In fact, IIRC there were even three Azeroths at the time (Kingdom, Continent, World). Gradually Blizzard just started refering to the kingdom as "Stormwind" and kind of quietly phased that version out. Azeroth the continent actually lasted until WoW, and at least through most of the beta, Eastern Kingdoms was indeed called "Azeroth." I forget at what point they changed that, but at some point I think enough people were getting confused and they came up with the name "Eastern Kingdoms" to make it a bit more clear.

I actually don't recall specifically what the RPG says, but I suspect (at least based on what I'm reading here) that was their little way of reconcilling the name inconsitancies in a lore-manner. If Lands of Conflict uses it (which I think it does), I suspect that's due to it being written pre-WoW when they were still using the term. --WarlockSoL (talk) 20:46, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually the continent splits in the RPG are as such, "Azeroth, Khaz Modan, and finally Lordaeron" Although some pre WoW sources also split off Quel'Thalas as a fourth continent. Azeroth as the lower continent exists throughout the RPG, even split up and mentioned in Alliance Player's Guide (both continent and world). Azeroth as kingdom is also specifically listed in Aliance Player's Guide (it also refers the nation of Stormwind as well, though mostly in the context of the present tense). A few of the references here (I won't add world use as it is the most common);

Nation use;

Azeroth

Azeroth, the shattered southern country, brought

its resolute and angry refugees into the Alliance. Now

under the rule of the Regent Lord Anduin Lothar,

these people once made up the mightiest of the human

kingdoms. They mourned their beloved King Llane who

died when Stormwind fell to the Horde, and they settled

near Southshore, determined to take back their homes.

Lordaeron

Lordaeron’s King Terenas proved to be Azeroth’s

staunchest ally, calling a conclave of all human kingdoms

to meet to discuss the fall of Azeroth. Its armies were the

heart and backbone of the Alliance.

Kul Tiras

Admiral Daelin Proudmoore led the island kingdom of

Kul Tiras. Kul Tiras was a naval and merchant country,

and thus both rich and powerful. Proudmoore was an ally

of Anduin Lothar, so he was Azeroth’s second strongestpatron...

Slightly vague use (As a reference to his titles, "Lothar of Azeroth", and "Lion of Azeroth", it refers to the kingdom but could also refer to continent);

The Alliance’s push continues and the Horde falls

back to the mouth of the Dark Portal. Beloved Lord

Anduin Lothar of Azeroth falls in the final battle.

Continenal reference;

Lordaeron stays under the control of the undead, where

a civil war brews between the Scourge and a faction of

free undead, the Forsaken, who are free from Arthas’s

control. Azeroth remains somewhat the same, only with

demons roaming the southeastern portion. Khaz Modan

is still the strong nation it once was, with only troggs,

maddened gnomes and ice trolls to concern us.

...when the Scourge appeared.

Jarl did his best to evacuate his parishioners, then joined

them in their flight to Azeroth.

BTW, you can also find a continent split map showing Azeroth & Khaz Modan continent map in Lands of Mystery as well (it cuts off Lordaeron as its showing South Sea of the world)[2]. You can also see a the continent splits in the World of Warcraft RPG second edition core book as well [3], and the book is split into sections discussing these subcontinents. This concept has hardly been removed.

Lands of Conflict only uses the Azeroth Continent and world definitions explicitely. Stormwind is said to be specifically a nation/region north of Elwynn Forest and and Westfall. However it never touches on the idea of Azeroth nation. Though it kinda hints at it when discussing the continent. Lands of Conflict maps are the same maps that appear in the World of WArcraft Manual, btw.Baggins (talk) 01:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, when I said continent I meant the whole Eastern Kingdoms :P In the beta, that was indeed called Azeroth too. And I was kind of grouping the region and kingdom together, so that was probably not accurate too. But otherwise, yeah. I think they are trying to reconcile the inconsistances. I think the idea is that using "Azeroth" is still "ok", but they want to get away from using it to avoid confusion. --WarlockSoL (talk) 16:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Honestly I think the confusion only lies in a grup of players of the MMO, young players, and those that have never played previous Warcraft sources, haven't read the books, and don't pay attention to the quests (btw I think there may be one or two quests or characters that refer to the souther Eastern Kingdoms as Azeroth). Including hardcore gamers that just play the game to play the game.

I'm pretty sure anyone interested enough to read the books, or go back to one of the earlier games will be able to figure out what's being described based on context. I certainly doesn't require a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon. Anycase for the MMO alone who has a wide fan certainly beyond Warcraft lore fans alone, has alot of oversimplications. While we know that the northern regions above the "former Lordaeron" region, is Quel'Thalas their are few references to that term in the game right? The few that I can think of off the top of my head is if you go off the map by following around the shore of the continent in the main world and on some dropped items, and the title of a quest item (that doesn't even discuss the region), three history books telling of the rise and fall of the nation, and the subtitle of Lor'Themar Theron. I'm sure there are probably in the quests, but unless people pay attention to the quest, or the context of the reference they may not understand what it is. Someone who doesn't understand previously lore may not be able to catch these references. Actually I ran into quite a few people in game, where I told them to go to Quel'Thalas to see something and they didn't know where that was. However, if I told them to go do Ghostlands or Eversong Woods they had an idea what I was talking about. Aparently they only pay attention to what shows up on the overworld map....

Surprisingly Khaz Modan is often called Kingdom of Ironforge in WoW during quests, and you find few references describing the subcontinent itself, I.E where it splits between Azeroth and Lordaeron. Where as in outside pubished lore Kingdom of Ironforge, and Kindom of Khaz Modan more or less mean the same thing. The three major splits on Kalimdor are never mentioned ingame either as far as I know.

I guess the region of Lordaeron isn't directly brought up in the game as well, other than in books if people choose to read them. There are indirect references in npc names, and item names. The main reference to Lordaeron is limited mainly to the Capital City itself. All the subregions have names other than Lordaeron, like plaguelands, Tirisfal Glades, etc. There are probably references in quests, but unless the player takes the time to read those he is not likely to know about it.

For anecdoatal note I also ran into enough people who were confused over Darkshore, and Darkshire... :p

BTW, you bring up a good point. It may very well be that the "region" (we are speaking of the southern continent right?) and the "kingdom" are one and the same meaning, for the three parts do make up what is entitled, the "Eastern Kingdoms". That's not to say that Eastern Kingdoms can't refer to some of the former and smaller kingdoms within the three (or four) main kingdom demominations as well (like Stromgarde, former Alterac, Gilneas etc). Come to think of it Warcraft II, never really called the four main regions it listed as "continents", it only referred to them as the main kingdoms of the world, and also broke Lordaeron down into six lesser kingdoms.

I think that this kind of trivia is only useful for people who's interest in lore goes out of the MMO itself, and the people who are hired to expand the story outside of the games.Baggins (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Overall I think I would say it is not so much confusing as it is bad practice to have like 5 different things with the same name :P It *can* be confusing, as you can't just say "Azeroth" and have people know what you are talking about though, you need to quantify it with "Azeroth the World" or something. So I think Blizzard is probably trying to get away from that. --WarlockSoL (talk) 19:12, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

New York and New York, New York? Washington and Washington D.C? Not like it doesn't happen in real life ;)Baggins (talk) 06:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's how i've got to figured out. Lets say that, like birds, Gryphons tend to migrate north for the summer and south for the winter; having figured that, then perhaps Northeron is their summer nesting ground and the Hinterlands are their winter nesting ground. As for the Wildhammers, since they tame gryphons, it'd be a good business policy to operate from both locations to ensure a steady supply. Hell, for all we know, the Wildhammers used to have their capital there, but had to move to Aerie Peak for some reason or other; ya, they'd probably have called it Gryphalla or something like that. As for the location, think about it; North plus Lordaeron = Northeron. As such, i figure the location is north of both plaguelands and just west of Quel'Thalas.JPlowman2 (talk) 02:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Investigation about Northern Lordaeron, Northeron, Hinterlands and Aerie Peaks

Regards to all, seeing the mess in relation to areas of Northern Lordaeron, Northeron, Hinterlands and Aerie Peaks and the many contradictory speculations about this issue, I plan to solve the mystery with the information we have. To do this I will go drawing conclusions or axioms, and then I'll linking them, so that everything fits. Because I am convinced that one single speculation would solve all this mess, although ideally would be this was taken as a proved fact.

Although little information we have in relation to these areas is diffuse and contradictory, as they come from different authors, surely there is a way to connect them all and come to a firm and credible conclusion.

This will take time, but do not worry, I will not change anything until I get the conclusions and you give me your blessing.

I will publish my reports in Talk:Northern Lordaeron, Talk:Northeron, Talk:Hinterlands and Talk:Aerie Peaks, at the same time. Northem (talk) 13:04, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

The Pic

The Picture states where Northeron might be, however if you are to swim to that location (even prior to TBC/WotLK/Cata) it will be markes as part of Quel'Thalas. Just stating. --Gruntijackal (talk · contr) 19:51, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

The fact that the area where it should be that location is identified as Quel'Thalas currently ingame is basically due to that there was no Quel'Thalas when these maps were made (pre TBC), and provisionally the whole area land north Plaguelands was called Quel'Thalas as a mere "placeholder” awaiting for future additions. At the upcoming cataclysmic expansion, that location must never be identified as Quel'Thalas, but as Northeron (or more likely deleted and replaced by the ocean). Northem (talk) 16:34, May 20, 2010 (UTC)