Talk:Leran
Are we sure?
Are we sure Leran is Garona's mother in the new lore? From what I've read, Chronicle conspicuously doesn't mention anything of that sort, it just mentions that Garona was the daughter of a draenei prisoner of the Bladewind clan. It also wouldn't make sense date-wise, as it seems the Bladewind clan sacrificed Leran shortly after capturing her, and it happened only 8 years before the Dark Portal — which would make Garona way too young. - Linneris (talk) 08:36, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- I get where you're coming from, but Garona is the daughter of Maraad's sister, was born in the same clan that captured Leran ... Xporc (talk) 09:03, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- While it is likely the case, would it not be better to have it under speculation, unless we have specific confirmation? PeterWind (talk) 16:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
- Well shit I was wrong. I finally read the backstory of Leran, and she was indeed captured 8 years before the dark portal, while Garona was already an experienced fighter and linguist 6 years before the dark portal. Leran can't be Garona's mom. Xporc (talk) 19:19, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- By the Old Gods, u are right! --Mordecay (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- So Maraad had two sisters with identical stories... or there is a typo.--SWM2448 19:36, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Or Maraad is just mistaken about Garona? Or Blizzard retconned Garona's backstory? WHATS HAPPENIIING. Anyhow I tweeted Burns about it, tho he ignored my two previous tweets about Garona's retcons.... --Mordecay (talk) 19:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Chronicle doesn't shoot it down specifically, and that they specifically had Leran be kidnapped by the same clan they later state Garona came from is pretty telling. If they wanted to break that connection they would have either not mentioned her at all or not have made it the same clan as Garona's. Also, Maraad's rampage through the village would have been in year 6 BDP, not 8 - the book says Garona fled in 6 BDP and it also says she fled when the village was destroyed. So that's 2 years of wiggle room for her to be among them, and we know from Thrall that orcs grow quickly (size of an adult human at 6, according to LotC). But ultimately I think the strongest point is the point about Leran being kidnapped by the same clan that birthed Garona. They wouldn't have had that happen if they wanted to retcon her being related to Garona. If all else fails ask Matt Burns but I don't think there's enough in the book itself to say she is definitely not Garona's mother.ReignTG (talk) 20:35, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- I understand. By all means, Leran SHOULD be Garona's mother, but as I said, Garona was already recognized as a skilled fighter and linguist in 6 BDP, so if she was Leran's daughter she would then be what, three-years old? Even in japanese anime child prodigies are not that good. Xporc (talk) 20:55, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Orc children do age quickly, as I pointed out with Thrall in LotC. It's a stretch but given what we know of orcs it's not unbelievable. I just don't think we should assume to know what Blizzard intended here, one way or the other. The last official (not vague on the subject like Chronicle is) statement we have regarding the relationship is that Maraad's sister is indeed Garona's mother. Until/if it's specifically shot down by Mr. Burns or some other employee I'd say we stick to that. ReignTG (talk) 21:09, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- I understand. By all means, Leran SHOULD be Garona's mother, but as I said, Garona was already recognized as a skilled fighter and linguist in 6 BDP, so if she was Leran's daughter she would then be what, three-years old? Even in japanese anime child prodigies are not that good. Xporc (talk) 20:55, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Chronicle doesn't shoot it down specifically, and that they specifically had Leran be kidnapped by the same clan they later state Garona came from is pretty telling. If they wanted to break that connection they would have either not mentioned her at all or not have made it the same clan as Garona's. Also, Maraad's rampage through the village would have been in year 6 BDP, not 8 - the book says Garona fled in 6 BDP and it also says she fled when the village was destroyed. So that's 2 years of wiggle room for her to be among them, and we know from Thrall that orcs grow quickly (size of an adult human at 6, according to LotC). But ultimately I think the strongest point is the point about Leran being kidnapped by the same clan that birthed Garona. They wouldn't have had that happen if they wanted to retcon her being related to Garona. If all else fails ask Matt Burns but I don't think there's enough in the book itself to say she is definitely not Garona's mother.ReignTG (talk) 20:35, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Or Maraad is just mistaken about Garona? Or Blizzard retconned Garona's backstory? WHATS HAPPENIIING. Anyhow I tweeted Burns about it, tho he ignored my two previous tweets about Garona's retcons.... --Mordecay (talk) 19:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- So Maraad had two sisters with identical stories... or there is a typo.--SWM2448 19:36, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- By the Old Gods, u are right! --Mordecay (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- Well shit I was wrong. I finally read the backstory of Leran, and she was indeed captured 8 years before the dark portal, while Garona was already an experienced fighter and linguist 6 years before the dark portal. Leran can't be Garona's mom. Xporc (talk) 19:19, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
- While it is likely the case, would it not be better to have it under speculation, unless we have specific confirmation? PeterWind (talk) 16:34, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
So first I'd like to offer my apologies to those of you who were right all along. Since Med'an was retconned, it seems likely that Garona isn't Maraad's niece indeed. How do you guys propose we handle the situation on the wiki? I mean, in comics canon, they are still related, but in official canon, they are not anymore ... Xporc (talk) 18:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
- Why would Med'an be non-canon? --Mordecay (talk) 18:27, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
note re age three
I don't understand these points:
- There seems to be an inconsistency given the Chronicle's timeline, Garona would be recognized as a skilled fighter and linguist at the age of 3.
- Either Maraad was lied to, or it is a mistake in the book.
How what is the book/chronicle contradicting?
This is also at World_of_Warcraft:_Chronicle_Volume_2#Retcons_and_inconsistencies
The wording just isn't exactly clear about what the 2 contradicting points are. Tycio (talk) 06:16, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
or wait
Reading the previous discussion...
- Xporc: "I finally read the backstory of Leran, and she was indeed captured 8 years before the dark portal, while Garona was already an experienced fighter and linguist 6 years before the dark portal. Leran can't be Garona's mom"
If we design a timeline using "BP" (before portal)...
- 8 AP Leran captured
- 6 AP Garona experienced linguist
A two-year span is pretty narrow. You have 24 months for Leran to give birth to Garona and then for Gul'Dan to train up Garona.
Firstly: if orcs by six years old are nearly the size of adult humans, I wouldn't be surprised if they gestated in less time, so maybe it only takes 6 months rather than the usual 9?
- then again, now idea Draenei DNA affects it, if they are long-lived and mature slow they might gestate longer-than-human times and balance it out so Garona gestates in a normal 9 months?
A key factor would be this bit though:
- FROM BEFORE HER BIRTH,
- SHE WAS UNDER HIS CONTROL
- HE AGED HER, THEN TORTURED HER,
Given that Gul'Dan was controlling Garona "before her birth" this means he could've actually been telepathically educating her (giving her linguistic and combat abilities) while still in Leran's womb, so that alone could 100% explain the "japanese anime child prodigies" factor.
As for how she'd be large enough to fight well: we can actually see in the comic panel she's NOT particularly large at that point, and didn't need to be: she was an assassin after all, being small helps slip into tight quarters with your knives.
I'd say in human size analogies she looks like a twelve year old girl, so if it normally takes Orcs only six years to get to 18ish (1:3 ratio) I'd expect an Orc to be the size of a twelve year old human in about FOUR years (48 months)...
If we figure that Garona gestated about 8 months and was only about 16 months old by the time she's pictured here as the skilled assassin/linguist, then aging 48 orc-months in 16 real-months would mean Gul'dan accelerated her normal orc maturation process by x3. Though in relation to a human that's x3 x3 = aging NINE times as quickly, thus 16 months amounting to 144 months or twelve years (12x12 = 16*9) 06:54, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- "The Shadow Council" chapter of Chronicle II describes her background slightly differently from the Comic picture (or at least it doesn't mention Gul'dan controlling her from her birth). In Chronicle, he began magically controlling her after she joined the Shadow Council.
- Now this could mean anything. The Comic info still likely happened, like the aging bit, but did it happen when she was young among the Bladewinds or after she was in the Shadow Council (thus explaining her skills)? Currently, the aging bit on Garona's page is put in the Shadow Council paragraph. --Morderi (talk) 12:25, 8 February 2021 (UTC)