Talk:Kraken

Old discussion

Has anyone noticed that both kraken and krakken get you to this page? Are there two different subspecies?Charred But Alive 10:14, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Er, no they don't? Kraken doesn't exist ... -- Kirkburn 10:17, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Kraken and Krakken are the same species (different spellings!). They do exist. There is only one example of a Kraken in the game, but there are many in lore books etc.

Spelling?

Does anyone know which instances it is spelled "Kraken" vs. "Krakken"? I was looking over The Fall of Gurubashi and it seems to be spelled "Krakken" there. Given that's an in-game reference, shouldn't that be the correct spelling? (and thus, Kraken should redirect to Krakken, and not the other way around). However I'm not sure where exactly it's spelled as "Kraken" either, which is why I ask.

P.S. - Regarding the "unkillable" aspect, keep in mind that was written from a Troll's perspective and may not actually be true (it's what *they* believed). It also may have been refering to that specific Krakken (or group of Krakken). It also doesn't specifically say they are unkillable, just that the one particular spell, while strong, wasn't strong enough to do it. I really do think Lurker and Tethyr are supposed to be Krakken. --WarlockSoL (talk) 15:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Its Kraken in the RPG, Shadows & Light for an example.Baggins (talk) 16:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Is that the only place? If so, I'd say the in-game spelling is more likely to be the correct one then (especially since S&L is older - the WarCraft RPG line tends to have a lot of details Blizzard later changed in WoW, such as "Gadgetzar", Maiev being dead, etc). --WarlockSoL (talk) 18:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Shadows and Light was published after the release of the MMO actually. So "which is older" is debateable. Krakken has technically only been used in relation to troll name for the creature, and file name (which is technically a datamined factoid). It hasn't yet appeared in modern texts. Kraken is the english spelling (or the spelling adopted into English) for the creature in real earth english. Krakken may be a troll spelling, but who knows. However if a future published source comes out and clarifies things then it can be moved. As for Gadgetzar, it might be a typo, because its only appeared with that spelling once, and it was later called Gadgetar once (which may be another typo). Maiv's death, was a mission objective in TFT (she had to be killed to progress the mission, although she could respawn after her death)... Not entirely the RPG's fault there... But Blizzard retconning themselves. What you should be saying is that Blizzard products tend to hae a lot of details that Blizzard later changes in future Blizzard products. It doesnt' matter what product, even stuff in TBC changed stuff in WoW base version.Baggins (talk) 20:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Just as a note on the naming, kraken (lit. the krak(e)) is how it's spellt in norway/scandinavia (from where the legend origins). Ose ^t/_c 20:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Kraken versus lurkers below

I think all these creatures called Kraken on wowwiki may not really be Kraken. The only evidence it seems, unless I have missed something, is a model called Krakken. The Lurker Below, Oacha'noa, and Tethyr seem to look like the "lurkers below", who themselves do not look like Kraken. Going by the description of Kraken in the book, they seem to resemble giant squids like in the real world myths. They are described as having tentacles and being able reach out like they can wrap a tentacle around a person, as when one tried to grab Rhonin. Also, these guys seem too small, since Kraken are described as large enough to have leviathan swimming around them. It seems like Kraken are one type of creature and "lurkers below", The Lurker Below, Oacha'noa, and Tethyr are another type of creature.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 12:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Split page

Maybe we should split this page into two. One for "Kraken" and one for "Krakken". I don't think there are two types of kraken, one with tentacles and one that looks like a fish. The only evidence I see for Krakken is a model image. Meanwhile, everything about the Kraken that I have seen talks about tentacles. I think wowwiki has done this before, for example with the Manticore/Manticora page. It was one page but then split into two.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 02:09, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

First off the term "krakken" only appears in WoW in ingame books and file names. The term "kraken" only appears in WoE and the RPG.

The problem here is that their are krakken and kraken references that both mention or imply tentacles and large sized creatures. WoE reference discusses "kraken" and discusses tentacles. The references to "krakken" in the ingame books, tablets, and quests also seem to imply tentacles (or implication of many limbs). Both references describe kraken and "krakken" as being large creatures. The RPG references to kraken imply that they are very large creatures, and the references in the game to krakken also imply them to be large creatures.

In other words there is no safe way to seperate krakken and kraken since descriptions both appear to be roughly the same, although thanks to "krakkens" now seen in WoW we now have two seperate appearances for "krakkens" in description and seen appearance.Baggins (talk) 17:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Well what is the difference between the Kraken/Krakken and the Manticore/Manticora example? Aren't the Kraken and Krakken different enough to make two pages? Those that we have seen in the game so far have giant flippers and not tentacles.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 02:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Manticora and Manticore aren't even remotely the same creatures. They were always seperate sections because they were different things. They got split because they were different things.

Kraken and Krakken are just alternate spellings of the same "thing". If you go by ingame books there are krakken described with tentacles, just as you can find the term kraken described with tentacles in WoE. Just because Blizzard decided to make the models nothing like how they described Krakken ingame books doesn't mean that one can seperate that information out. You can't seperate things when they represent the same thing, and are described similarly.Baggins (talk) 04:46, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

My thought: tentacles are hard to model. Kirkburn  talk  contr 17:53, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I thought there were some creatures in WoW with tentacles already. I haven't fought C'thun but isn't that one example of a creature with all sorts of tentacles?  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 01:33, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

A single tentacle can be easy to animate, however, several tentacles on one creature that will need to flow with one another so that it looks good, not so easy... One could say, not worth the time. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 01:39, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Well like I said I haven't fought C'thun. I thought he had various tentacles in his screenshot.  Rolandius  (talk - contr) 01:42, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

The old name of the creature in the files was leviathan there was even an article about them back when datamined stuff slipped through easierSargeLIVES (talk) 01:33, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

The spelling may not even have anything to do with the differences they may merely be mny creatures named Kraken or something like it just because giant creatures of the deep ocean are a tad difficult to catalog properlySargeLIVES (talk) 01:37, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Leviathan or kraken?

Lady Naz'jar refers it as a Kraken in the last Vashj'ir quest, thus it is most likely the Kraken of troll legends. Gurluas (talk) 04:30, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Creature Name

I can't think of where the Leviathan name came from, other than its model name... and the naga does specifically call it a kraken. This should probably be merged into Kraken. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 07:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Which one was in "The Third Troll Legend"?

Do we know which one type was mentioned in  [The Third Troll Legend]? It says that they are massive and that they had "arms" (which both types have), but little else. The assumption is currently that they are the 'squids'.--SWM2448 22:52, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Leviathan or kraken? v2

Blizzard seems to use both terms interchangeably to refer to both types of creature, i believe this is a case of when all else fails apply model name--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:55, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

It is not that one of them lacks a name, it is that the two types of creatures share a name.--SWM2448 23:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That's not exactly the problem, the problem is that two types of creatures, "share" two different names...

I've seen Leviathan and Kraken been used in both cases(if i remember correctly), although according to Real world references the fish should be the leviathan and the squid the kraken, blizzard named them on reverse--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:04, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Leviathans have been mentioned occasionally, but when, besides the model name, has the term "Leviathan" been used in relation to the squid guys?--SWM2448 00:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Isn't the model name enough for you? that's the only reference to leviathan, but then why wouldn't just blizzard call shit what it is?--Ashbear160 (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The model name is not 'enough' because the creature has a name used outside of the model names. Model names do not always match with the 'real' names, such as "crackelf" for the wretched.--SWM2448 01:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't really care as long as they are marked differently, i just hope this doesn't turn into a Ancient thing like before--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Why do they have to be marked differently? They seem to both be similar sea monsters in relation to where they come from (which is randomly from nowhere, summoned by Azshara or Neptulon). Even with the demigod "Ancients" and the tree-demigod "ancients" there was some degree of connection besides name keeping them on one page.--SWM2448 22:19, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The ancient page was eventually divided because it became too confusing...--Ashbear160 (talk) 02:36, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Are you confused by it? Perhaps when more info on both appears a split may be needed. For now, I think it is fine.--SWM2448 03:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually i have no problem with this incarnation of the article, just the previous which treated them both as the same creature of different types.--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:38, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

With Patch 5.2 I would love to see the page split into Leviathan and Kraken. The Felled Leviathan and Ancient Leviathan both have "Leviathan" in their name and Jiao in his title. The Mariner's Revengerefers Jiao as a Leviathan and the creatures model and sound files is called "Leviathan". --LemonBaby (talk) 09:38, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

The squids were kraken first. Per  [The Third Troll Legend], leviathans were some other kind of large sea creature, unless the squids swam through... themselves.--SWM2448 11:27, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Is there any reference that the Krakken in those legends are squid-like? And those are only legends.... Besides, Blizzard wrote it like 10 years ago. The more recent representations of Leviathans are all squid-like in appereance.--LemonBaby (talk) 13:59, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Their use of raise-able arms, being connected to Neptulon and the Old Gods, predating The Lurker Below... Look at Ozumat's dungeon journal entry. Sure, they might also be called Leviathans, but it is not some big lore change. It is just an alternate name.--SWM2448 14:08, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

So the only squid in-game not beeing called leviathan is Ozumat? And is there any NPC in game called Leviathan that is not a squid?--LemonBaby (talk) 14:43, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Whenever Kraken show up outside of mobs, they are squids. In game, they showed up as the fish-whales. Then Ozumat showed up and Kraken were squids again. In Pandaria, the squids are leviathans, not kraken. There was a hydra in the sewers of Black Temple that used the name, and the Flame Leviathan (which was a tank, showing the name can mean 'large').--SWM2448 14:55, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you that Leviathans can also be called Kraken and that Leviathan means 'large'.--LemonBaby (talk) 15:02, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry if you took that as obvious. There is no need for either of us to be condescending.--SWM2448 15:06, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I didn't want to be condescending. English isn't my native tongue so sometimes I adopt the wrong tone without even knowing it. My bad! My problem with this page is that those two creatures are completly different and each one of those should have their own page. Until Mists we didn't know what to call them and it wasn't that important because Ozomat had its unique model. But with Mists there is a clear trend towards Leviathan for the squids. All the NPCs, the quests, the model names and the sound files gives enough to finally end this discussion (after five years). I know that there are a few exceptions originating from the time bevore Mists but the overall geal should be to seperate those creatures (because they are completly different) and with Mists Blizzard has a very clear trend towards one name. I mean, even Dark shaman and Dark shaman got their own page....--LemonBaby (talk) 08:02, 6 September 2014 (UTC)

I honestly think they're going to keep flip flopping with the names. It just depends on which set of people are working on specific things. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 01:43, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

So, what does it take to split those pages?--LemonBaby (talk) 07:40, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

They can be split. It just feels wrong to me to give the cephalopods a name that they only have in Pandaria. They were probably the ones in the Troll Legend and the novels.--SWM2448 23:37, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

You might be right....--LemonBaby (talk) 16:32, 9 September 2014 (UTC)