Talk:Khadgar

Khadgar in The Burning Crusade

I added a few lines to the section "Khadgar and the Burning Crusade" in the wake of Kaplan's confirmation that all the heroes from WarCraft II will make an appearance. I also added some specualtion of what he might be/do. I believe that the first part of the section should be removed, as it is obsolete now. I will leave it until someone else agrees with me though. As a side note, I really hope that they get rid of the Gandalf-like appearance shown on the statues, and that the in-game Khadgar will look like the real Khadgar we all came to love (a bit older, of course). --DarthMuffin 22:12, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

I'll try to fix it tomorrow. thanks for the heads-up, just what we want to see. --Ragestorm 22:34, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

I ended up editing it myself. I mostly rearranged the references to make everything a bit more coherent. Feel free to further edit to your liking. --DarthMuffin 17:34, 23 September 2006 (EDT)

No, you did a good job. My plate, both on the wiki and off, had been quite full, so thanks for the help. --Ragestorm 19:52, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

Picture

What in the Nether hppened to his infobox picture? It's supposed to (and according to the text, still does) show his face from a WC2 cinematic, not the WoW screenshot!--Ragestorm 10:05, 24 October 2006 (EDT)

It does now :) There's nothing more annoying than replacing an image that way... -- Kirkburn (talk) 11:41, 24 October 2006 (EDT)

Rift question

I haven't played Warcraft II: The Dark Portal, so I'm putting my ignorance out there to start with. However, I have a question about the "rifts" that Khadgar ushered his companions into when Draenor was destroyed. Since Outland is simply shattered pieces of Draenor, what were these "rifts" and where did they lead to? I understand that Ner'zule opened up a bunch of portals to escape, thereby tearing Draenor apart in the process, but I was under the impression Khadgar simply hitched a ride on one of those floating pieces instead of going through some portal to who knows where and then somehow ending up back on Draenor's remains. User:Montag/sig 15:33, 16 November 2006 (EST)

It's clearly established in the epilogue that Khadgar entered one of the portals (don't know where "rift" came from) Ner'zhul opened, just before the planet was torn apart. Assuming that the laws of physics still hold, there's no way they would have survived- the chunks didn't drift apart, the planet exploded. It appears that the Expedition met the Naaru wherever it was that they went, and then returned to Outland when they realized its value. --Ragestorm 15:56, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Assuming the explosion was so fatal that they would have died, it's odd that there's any life left on Outland. However, I do agree it's possible he met the naaru and returned to Outland later. As long as it's clearly established that he went into a portal at some point before the destruction of Draenor in some official form, that clause is fine in my opinion. User:Montag/sig 16:48, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Admittedly, the Alliance on Azeroth might not have known, but that's what's established in the Beyond the Dark Portal epilogue.--Ragestorm 19:07, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Accepting Outland in the first place is already a giant suspension of belief for a bunch of scientific laws. For example, if Outland is just some floating chunks, how could it support such a diverse array of environments and still have enough gravitational force to keep moons circling around it?

My guess is that rift they entered was probably just retconned out, or that it was rather a safe haven of some sort to shield Khadgar and the Alliance Expedition.. But then that wouldn't explain how the indigenous life there still managed to survive. I hope we'll see more information on how Outland manages to exist once more info comes out.--Grid 17:37, 17 November 2006 (EST)

There are some quests or history you can look at ine xp that imply the rift from what I've heard from talking to people. Someone even showed me some links to screenshots. Apparently Khadger and his entourage actually did jump through a rift, and traveled around the twisting nether from world to world for a while. The then found some allies, Naaru as I recall, who they convinced to come back with them to help save Outland.Baggins 17:42, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Khadgar's age

It is implied that Medivh turned back the effects in The Last Guardian, page 308. Perhaps someone could double check? User:Jeoh/Signature

I'll double check when I get home, but could you point out the implication? I read the book twice when writing that stub.--Zexx 02:48, 4 February 2007 (EST)

Who knows ....if he's still suffering from that aging spell then maybe there's gonna be a quest that will take u back to Medivh to help him be young again (although this type of quest should be after a while if Khadgar suffers from old age)so he can battle the Legion and the Scourge better.....at least i hope so because i always imagined Khadgar more of a Battlemage then and Archmage like he's in WoW (Marakanis 01:18, 28 July 2007 (UTC)).

He was described as a battle-mage in The Last Guardian, wielding a sword as red as blood, wearing chain mail armor over his Dalarani Robes. I would imagine his fighting style to be sort of like Peter Jackson's Gandalf. --Invin Dranoel (talk) 17:09, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Retconned as Medivh's Appentice?

This was something I was wondering about but was Khadgar retconned into Medivh's appentice? The Beyond the Dark Portal manual simply describes Khadgar as a powerful archmage within the Kirin Tor who destroys the Dark Portal. It isn't until The Last Guardian that Khadgar is shown being taught by Medivh. Now a retcon is defined as "the deliberate changing of previously established facts in a work of serial fiction." In this case Khadgar, who previously had a very general background, is suddenly the apprentice to the most powerful archmage in Azeroth (and participates in killing him). This feels like a retcon to me. However, rather than contradict previously known facts, this change helps fill a hole in Khadgar's background and makes him a more interesting character. (Omega2010 (talk) 09:15, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

It isn't technically a retcon, more an expansion. Khadgar is Dalarani by nationality, and was sent by the Kirin Tor to become Medivh's apprentice, and was a powerful wizard within their power structure by the time of the Dark Portal. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Khadgar as a Guardian

I think that Khadgar should be new Guardian of Tirisfal, not Thrall or Med'an(who is a BIG mistake imo). He's powerful archmage and (what is most important) former aprentice of last Guardian Medivh. Medivh don't trained him for nothing after all. What do you think about that?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kazak1920 (talk · contr).

Med'an is the Guardian. WoWWiki can not change that, and must report it as such.--SWM2448 15:40, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Possession

At points both Tides of Darkness and Through the Dark portal talk about a ring of understanding. That lets Khadgar understand languages he doesn't know. Does anyone know if Khadgar still has this. And if so has the proper name so it can be added. Mattyankees (talk) 03:56, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Was General Turalyon Retconned out of the Leadership of the Alliance Expedition?

Just wondering. Because Khadgar page no longer mentions him--Knighthonor (talk) 09:23, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

 [Khadgar's Silver Coin] reads, "Turalyon and Alleria, wherever you are, may you be well." Also, nothing I've read so far has hinted at that.--Blayaden (talk) 14:47, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Khadgar: Neutral or Alliance?

I see that Khadgar is being portrayed as neutral in this article and others where he is mentioned. Yet, the only indication of any neutral leanings we've seen from him is the fact that he shoos players away from A'dal in Shattrath. Everything about his history has him acting in favor of and in the name of the Alliance, and even in his portrayal in the Burning Crusade, he is still tagged as a member of the Sons of Lothar, and Alliance organization made up of those who followed Turalyon into Outland in BtDP. In my opinion, he should not be flagged as neutral, he should be flagged as Alliance, because everything we know about him indicates that he supports the Alliance over the Horde. Indeed, the fact that he has a statue in the Valley of Heroes and the fact that he has never, not once, severed his own connections with the Alliance or denounced the Alliance in any way, shape, or form is far stronger evidence to suggest him being tagged as Alliance than the evidence for him being neutral, which has thus far been "Well he's standing in Shattrath." Fojar38 (talk) 17:13, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

As far as I remember, he did nothing in tBC for the Alliance. All the quests he gives are for both sides. It´s the same case as of Thrall. So when they will work with and/or against Horde/Alliance, thew will be taged as you demand, for now, it should be stayed as it is. And also, he is an advisor of A'dal and taged him as Alli member would be little bit odd, coz Alliance nor Horde has no influence in the leadership of Shattrath. --Mordecay (talk) 19:11, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

By the logic of "As long as they remain neutral in game they are neutral" Is what we seem to go by. To avoid arguments like this.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 19:40, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Meh. He is neutral but Alliance-leaning. Maybe I should start a policy discussion to stop arguments over what icon goes next to a name.--SWM2448 22:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

@Mordecay, he didn't do anything in TBC for the Alliance, but Khadgar's character spans far more than that. Ever since his first appearance in The Last Guardian he's been a friend of Stormwind and ever since Tides of Darkness he's been fully an Alliance character and identified himself as such. Furthermore, he doesn't so much "work with the Horde" in Shattrath so much as he acknoweledged the Horde (and Alliance) player by telling them to go away. He's not even an advisor to A'dal, he's literally at best just a learner. Furthermore, in-game he's still tagged as "Sons of Lothar," a faction that is outright hostile to the Horde. Marking him as neutral makes very little sense when all things are considered. He really isn't neutral in any sense of the term, and he should be marked accordingly. Fojar38 (talk) 23:47, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I hate to be brash about this all. You make good points, but I just think we should leave him, because he's neutral in his latest incantation.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 23:50, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

He's not neutral though. The sum total of his dialogue in BC was all of about four sentences, none of it having to do with political affiliation, meaning that there's nothing to suggest that it's changed. The fact that he gives one meaningless quest to Horde players in a neutral city doesn't mean that he himself is neutral, as he has never declared such and his in-game tags suggest he's still a member of the Sons of Lothar. He should be tagged as Alliance on WoWpedia as a result. Fojar38 (talk) 02:06, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Being a Son of Lothar makes you a veteran of the Invasion of Draenor, it doesn't mean you have to be Alliance. He's and advisor to A'dal who is highly neutral being a naaru. He's grown past the petty affiliations of Alliance or Horde and he studies under his new master now having no seen bias to the Alliance. He might be Alliance leaning but he's not hostile to Horde so he remains marked neutral, you can make a note somewhere if you wish.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 03:17, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Being a Son of Lothar means that you're allied with the Alliance, as the organization is Alliance aligned. You cannot be a member of the Sons of Lothar and be neutral at the same time any more than you can be a member of the Kor'kron guard and be neutral at the same time. Since he's outright tagged as "Sons of Lothar" in Shattrath, that takes precedence over the idea that he's neutral. This isn't the first time we've seen a member of a faction hand out quests to the other faction. Following your logic, we'd have to mark Vol'jin as neutral on his page because he served as the primary questgiver for the entire Alliance Patch 4.1 storyline. There is a double standard being applied here by marking Khadgar neutral and not characters like Vol'jin. Furthermore, we've seen him biased towards the Alliance for literally the entire time his character has existed with the one exception being a few lines while he's standing in Shattrath. This is not enough to portray a character as neutral, not nearly enough. Fojar38 (talk) 04:16, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

That's different. Vol'jin is a racial leader of the Horde, he did what he did because he pretty much had to to defeat the Zandalari. Khadgar made the choice to join A'dal for knowledge. He serves a neutral being, he's neutral in-game. He's neutral.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 04:21, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Vol'jin did not join to any other group or faction thus mark of the Horde is correct, however Khadgar (and Thrall or Gazlowe) did joined to neutral factions. Only time will show whether Khadgar will return to the Alliance. --Mordecay (talk) 16:44, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

And Khadgar is a hero of the Alliance who has a statue in the Valley of Heroes, and the only reason he gives Horde characters quests at all is because he wants to be left alone. He's learning from A'dal but we haven't seen anything to indicate he's "serving" them, and throughout his lore appearances he's been consistently Alliance in every appearance except for the one in Shattrath. Furthermore, why is it different with Vol'jin? Why does him being a racial leader arbitrarily mean that he can't be considered neutral but Khadgar can despite the fact that, as far as the story is concerned, both of them did the exact same thing, except Vol'jin worked with the opposite faction even MORE than Khadgar did. Khadgar is not neutral and his page should reflect this fact. Fojar38 (talk) 05:42, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

This argument is getting repetetive in nature. Listen the Alliance regard him as a hero and he never undid his affiliations with the Alliance but neither did Thrall or Malfurion. Neutral. Why you ask? Because they are NEUTRAL. It is different because Vol'jin HAD TO WORK WITH THE ALLIANCE. Khadgar, MADE THE CHOICE. He's still an important Alliance hero, yes. He's a member of the Alliance yes. But he is neutral giving no favor to either faction.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 05:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

That's incorrect though. Malfurion never undid his affiliations with the Alliance and as a result, he's still considered Alliance. Thrall had an entire book about him severing his ties with the Horde, hence he's neutral. Heck, BOLVAR shouldn't be neutral according to the set standards as he never severed ties with the Alliance but that's a different topic. Furthermore, do you realize the double standards in your argument? You just conceded that Khadgar's an important Alliance hero and MEMBER OF THE ALLIANCE. He's explicitly given favor to the Alliance for literally almost the entirety of his character's existance. The simple fact that he gives quests to members of the opposing faction is not enough to declare him neutral unless you're willing to do the same with countless other obviously partisan characters who give quests to the opposing faction, Vol'jin included. Fojar38 (talk) 17:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Though I do see where your coming from and all, it's just that we base alignment with the Horde, Alliance, or Neutral depending on the latest actions of a character. For example Thrall since his creation has served the Horde and then in Cataclysm he became neutral, working to save the Azeroth for everyone both Horde and Alliance instead of just working to save Azeroth for the Horde. Malfurion, while having a say in Alliance matters(such as voting to bring the Worgen into the Alliance) due to being a leader of the Night Elf government, is neutral because he ultimately looks at the bigger picture and has no problem working with both the Horde and Alliance when ever needed such as in the case of Hyjal.

Now Khadgar has become the same way. While he did spend most of his life in the service of the Alliance, the same holds true for Thrall and the Horde. While Khadgar still cares his people and the Alliance, he is willing to work with both sides whenever much like Malfurion. More importantly Khadgar seems to have sworn to serve and help the Naaru and the Naaru are neutral.--Sairez (talk) 20:30, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Let's put this issue down. It's starting to get repetitive talking to you.  The Artist Formerly Known As, MoneygruberTheGoblinMind your manners (talk contribs) 20:43, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

This exactly! Could not be explained better.--Mordecay (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

@Sairez, that's extraordinarily inconsistent. First off, Thrall made explicit the fact that he was going neutral in The Shattering, the Cataclysm opening event, and hammered it home again in Twilight of the Aspects. Malfurion, despite handing out quests to both factions in Hyjal, it the individual who orchestrated the Alliance rescue of the Worgen in Gilneas, and is the PRESIDING FIGURE over the Alliance meeting in Wolfheart, and literally orchestrates Alliance votes regarding Alliance internal politics. Furthermore, the last thing that we saw Vol'jin doing was handing out quests in ZA and ZG, so if we're going to angle this as "Whatever we saw them doing last is what they are" then we need to mark Vol'jin as neutral as well. You can't pick and choose which characters you want to consider neutral and which ones you don't want to consider neutral, especially when the criteria for doing so is this inconsistent.

Now, in the case of Khadgar, not only has everyone in this discussion so far simply ASSUMED that he's joined the Naaru and the Sha'tar (there's nothing in the lore to even suggest this) but Khadgar hasn't even "worked with both sides." He tells the player to leave him alone when they first arrive in Shattrath and provides some information about Karazhan in the attunement chain, and that's it. BAINE BLOODHOOF and VOL'JIN have worked with the Alliance more than Khadgar has worked with the Horde, and yet this bizarre double standard means that we need to consider them Horde but Khadgar neutral? Should we consider Jaina neutral because the last place we saw her was a Thrall's wedding where she was marked as friendly to both factions? Is Saurfang neutral because when we last saw him he was sucking up to the King of Stormwind? Is Anduin neutral because he gave Baine Fearbreaker? No, none of these are enough cause to grand neutrality, yet Khadgar telling both factions to leave him alone in Shattrath is? What makes this case so different, and what did Khadgar do that makes him neutral but not characters like Jaina? The factors that determine "neutrality" on this wiki are extraordinarily skewed and make no bloody sense, Khadgar being a prominent example. Fojar38 (talk) 21:37, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Furthermore, as this discussion is beginning to call WoWpedia's general policy on neutrality into question, I've created a thread on the forums to discuss it further.

http://www.wowpedia.org/index.php?title=Forum:How_is_character_neutrality_determined%3F&t=20120303214917

Fojar38 (talk) 21:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm confused. The infobox shows the Alliance icon but in the Main characters template at the end of the article, he's still neutral. --Petrovic (talk) 13:14, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

And also Furion should be moved. --Mordecay (talk) 13:31, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

WoD split

Is there a reason this page hasn't been split into (original) and (Warlords of Draenor)? He has as big a timeline split as any of the other involved characters, but seems to have been left unsplit. -- Taohinton (talk) 13:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Splits are from alternate characters. Khadgar, Thrall and Maraad will not be from alternate timeline but from main. --Mordecay (talk) 13:44, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Aha, I see. I thought he must be a separate version since his promo art has him looking much younger than in-game in TBC; I wonder whether that means he will be regaining a more youthful appearance in WoD... or maybe he just looks much, much younger now he's had a shave. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:23, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

…or possibly they've just used the TCG art because it looks nice. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:29, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

TCG art because it looks nice. -- Darksora110 (talk) 4:57, 18 November 2013

Khadgar is Alliance in WoD

These tweets came after the one you keep citing, User:SargerasDoomhammer and are already cited on the page:

• "Alliance hero that is willing to work with the Horde for the greater good." [1]
  
• "Khadgar is an Alliance character willing to give quests to individual Horde heroes he trusts." [2]
  

--Aquamonkeyeg (talk) 19:03, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Qadehar?

I wonder if there is any need to add the possibility of connection between Khadgar's name and a character from Erik L'Homme's Book of the Stars, Qadehar.--Adûnâi (talk) 11:30, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Skull

"he wants his skull for reasons..." He says that?--Mordecay (talk) 10:03, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 22:51, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Right, found it. He doesn't appear in the LFR Mannoroth fight.--Mordecay (talk) 09:07, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Guardian

After watching the ending of the Karazhan Legion raid, it does seem that Khadgar accepts the position of Guardian, though he is not the Guardian of Tirisfal, but rather the Guardian of Azeroth for the looks. He doesn't gain new powers nor whatever. It's simply a continuation of the title's holder and its responsibilities. --Ryon21 (talk) 01:34, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Thinking about it, maaaybe it could stay but with the link to the dialogue so that it is clear what the context is. Alternatively, we could also explain what him being called Guardian means in the notes section (that it is more about being "just" a protector of the world rather than the actual Guardian of Tirisfal) -- Mordecay (talk) 12:11, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Well, I don't mind one or another, or both, as long as it is properly explained, since people will surely confuse him as a Guardian of Tirisfal. --Ryon21 (talk) 12:24, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

history of development

Do we have any IRL history of how this char was developed over time?

I couldn't find him in 1st game, I think maybe the WC2 ending cinematic is first distinctive glimpse, and even Beyond the Dark Portal where he was an NPC doesn't seem to have said "oh yeah and he and Lothar finished off Medivh".

Was this idea introduced in the novels, the comics, WOW? Tycio (talk) 22:30, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

The earliest reference to Khadgar himself that I can find is in Beyond the Dark Portal, and the earliest specific reference to him helping defeat Medivh was the novel The Last Guardian. This would be right around the time that Warcraft 3 released, which makes sense: a lot of the retcons and consolidations of the earlier lore was codified with that game. -- 00:36, 26 February 2021 (UTC)