Server talk:Silver Hand US

Famous People: policy violations

The Famous People section currently appears to violate WoWWiki policies:

• Mildly defamatory: Wowpedia:DNP policy#Defamatory_content

• Not Neutral: Wowpedia:Neutrality policy

There are many famous people on Silver Hand who deserve mention. The descriptions of them should be fair & impartial.

--Ziana 12:05, 28 August 2006 (EDT)Ziana

Popularity contests are, by their very nature, neither fair nor impartial. The only way to make it impartial would be to list nothing but name, class, and race. The only way to make it fair would be to list every active character on the server.

--VictorTyne 23:03, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

The worst violations (calling multiple people "emo") were reverted, I've changed the (Violation) to an (NPOV). --Ziana 17:55, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

How is the use of the descriptor "emo" a violation, but several other adjectives with negative connotations are not? 'Griefer' and 'troll' appear multiple times without comment. The adjective 'emo' denotes a penchant for drama mongering and self-deprecating remarks used to gain the attention of others. That whole concept can be condensed into three letters to provide a succinct description of certain people on the Silver Hand server. --VictorTyne 23:03, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

Basically, what he means is that the word "emo" can be found offensive and does not just mean "a penchant for drama mongering and self-deprecating remarks used to gain the attention of others", it also has many other meanings and many people may not know that, that is what you are trying to put accross when you say "emo". So next time, actually use "a penchant for drama mongering and self-deprecating remarks used to gain the attention of others" instead. --Bull3t 14:56, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

Bobmoult thank-you for the edits to the people section; labelling it "Denizens" seems a very good solution. Kretol, I question removing people who are no longer playing/on the server. People like Setsuke, Aribeth & Sayuke form part of the history of Silver Hand, and were well-known in their time. I think simply mentioning they have moved on would be preferable. --Ziana 16:19, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Added Setsuke, Ramian, Sayuke, small content changes, reformatted the page. --Ziana 16:58, 30 December 2006 (EST)

What do you guys think of having a subpage for the "Denizens of Silver Hand"? I made two buttons linking to a separate page. I believe the main page was becoming too cluttered with random people adding their biographies to the "Denizens" section. With the new page, we can link to Player Character pages using the

This article is a player character biography page The contents herein are entirely player made and in no way represent official World of Warcraft history or occurrences which are accurate for all realms. The characters and events listed are of an independent nature and applied for roleplaying, fictional, speculative, or opinions from a limited playerbase only. Please make sure player character articles are named properly - see the player character articles policy.

tag. (Failed to tidle.)

Start using names on this talk page. Oxhorn is the only one that comes to mind, and as he has his own page on wowwiki, if any others that you can think of have a page, feel free to link. Within the next week I'll add an oxhorn link if noone replies. You all need to grow up and stop saying "Well if I'm not mentioned, they shouldn't be." This is a wiki and one of the best things about it is you can find links to relevant information from a given page. Oxhorn is relevant to Silver Hand-US. If you want to add yourself to this page (even though you have done nothing noteworthy) I suggest you talk with the admins about posting links to users' profiles who play on a given server (that's not a bad idea considering all realm pages are a mess and have no standard format at this point) Oakpack4 (talk) 18:17, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

Somalin re: your Edits

Somalin: if Unos Tres Tres Septum does not have an official website, can you justify linking an unrelated/off-topic site such as beastforum or gtfo.org?

Also, can you justify removing Untold Tales (still an active guild), and Setsuke (a well-known and active player)? --Ziana 16:17, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

Majikthise has recommended a Block for Somalin based on the ongoing edit war. --Ziana 16:49, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

an IP adress ban might be more effective

Somalin has been banned for a month by policy. Keep adding him back to Wowpedia:Known vandals, if he comes back and continues to vandalize. One more act and he would have been out for a year... most vandals are too lazy to wait that long. --Fandyllic 4:31 PM PDT 28 Aug 2006

Can you please justify how an arrow is offensive to you Ziana?

The above comment is unsigned. gtfo.org does not appear to be the official website of Unos Tres Tres Septum. --Ziana 17:56, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

can you prove it? -omg somalin

Guilds

I prefer to add guilds whose websites I know and can link, but if someone else wants to add those guilds mentioned above, go for it. (Except Silence, which changed servers. The remnants of Silence are now known as <Fuzzy Wuzzy Bunnies>, but I don't know their website.)

As for deleting all the famous people, I <3 the revert feature.

P.S. Thanks, Fandyllic, for the quick law enforcement.

Majikthise 17:36, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

I deleted KOTF off the list, as it is no longer in existence in any form ~Pantzeri

Jan 1 2006 - Vandalism by Brigger22

Removed random unrelated content by Brigger22. --Ziana 07:37, 1 January 2007 (EST)

• Reverted the page again and added Brigger22 to the vandals page - Cameimers 09:08, 1 January 2007 (EST)

One page or subpages

Bobmoult, I'm not sure the Silver Hand page is better off with so much content relegated to subpages. Especially something as small as the crafting database, which is a useful resource for Silverhanders, but will likely go unnoticed if relegated only to a link at the bottom of the page. This article has value in describing the server in general, and providing information about its particular history and inhabitants. While the main page shouldn't become too cluttered, content that gets removed becomes much less likely to be seen and used. --Ziana 16:28, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Hi Ziana. Thankyou for your message. I have spoken to many people in game and have suggested that a small but prominent link box would be the best way to balance the diverse amounts of interesting material pertaining to Silver Hand on the Silver Hand Server Wiki page. Perhaps you would be happier if instead of a separate page, the link box contained a direct link to your crafting database? I am not sure that one link to a crafting database deserves two paragraphs, which mainly advertise the creators and not the actual database. Cheers, --Bobmoult 17:17, 4 January 2007 (EST)

It's not my database, please don't think I'm acting out of personal interest. Rather, I'm just questioning breaking the page up so much. While it was quite long, it let users view everything at a glance. My concern is, that if each section becomes much more specific, there's less reason to ever visit it. I think the overarching question should be, how can this article best serve both the WW and SH communities? --Ziana 16:51, 4 January 2007 (EST)

We could also divert the guild list and denizens to subpages as well. What makes more sense: a very short SH article, with many subpages, or bring that content up into one long page? Looking at several major pages on the site, the conventional approach seems to be to include most relevant info on a main page, with subpages being those with enough content to justify it. I like what you've done with the guild progression page and that I think makes sense, as does the ninja page. I'm not disagreeing with the process; again, just wondering which vision (one-page vs small page with many subpages) would be most helpful in the end. --Ziana 17:46, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Subpages are generally used as support for the main page. Support can take many forms. If a portion of the page gets too long, it could be moved to a subpage. Or editors could write sections proposed for the main page and keep them in subpages. In the end, the page's organization is up to those most interested. In the case of servers, I generally think it's best to let the people who play on the server and use the page make that decision. ~

On that note, I believe it's best to take the shorter subpages you have and put them on the main page. Right now, all of your subpages are pretty short and could probably fit on the main page with no problem. Since the crafting database is quite extensive, I would suggest copying the information to a subpage (with the author's permission) or having a link at the bottom of the main page to the external database. Should any section start to get out of hand (say, you have a strong in-flux of ninja looters alluva sudden), you can partition off that section to a subpage and keep the newest additions on the main page, like this: ~

Ninja Looters For a complete list, see Server:Silver Hand/Ninja Looters Carmen Sandiego (2007-01-03) -- Stole the capital of Stormwind. Where could she be? The Nightfox (2007-01-05) -- Stole a fabrige egg.

You can do this for any section of the main page (including the crafter database), so you're using the main page as a "home page" of sorts and the subpages as more detailed lists. That's just my opinion. In the end, it's up to the people on the server to decide. User:Montag/sig 12:27, 5 January 2007 (EST)

An idea, coming with the idea of Montag, is to use noinclude tags, as you can see on Server:Shattered_Hand_Europe. Checking out the guild section, you can see a nice list of guilds, however, checking below it you see a link to the real Guildpage. The 2 tables on the main page were transcluded from that page. To see exactly what I mean, I suggest you press the edit button there (without changing anything) to see what exactly I did. Good way to have a clean edit Main page with a lot of sections, which you can edit on subsections. This way you can create a page for Ninjalooters and transclude only those who have not said sorry for their sins. People can still go check the other list just in case they are very afraid of ninja's. --Patrigan - Talk - SH (EU) 13:05, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Wow, great ideas, Montag and Patrigan. I personally love the idea of keeping many of the details on the main page, but partitioning many of the newer additions (like what Patrigan suggested) using noinclude tags onto subpages. In the end tho, I'll let more people chime in before changing anythings. Cheers guys! --Bobmoult 11:01, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Keep in mind that sort of structure starts to get very code-heavy and not as easy to edit. Personally, I prefer a manual approach (cut/paste), but include tags are certainly a viable option. User:Montag/sig 00:48, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Ok, I think this is getting insane. The actual Silver Hand page now contains almost no useful content, and there's now dozens of empty stubs for players or guilds, where a brief one-line comment was more than sufficient. Breaking this page up into so many pieces does not: increase the usefulness or value of the page, make information easier to get, or really solve any existing problem. The page was fine with all the info on one page; most of the sections did not have enough content to warrant creating new wiki pages for them.. --Ziana 00:42, 8 February 2007 (EST)

Well I disagree that this isn't solving a problem. The problem was that the mainpage was becoming completely cluttered with random people adding their own personal player histories to the Silver Hand main page, when that has nothing to do with the Silver Hand server. It belongs in a "Player Character Biography Page" using the

This article is a player character biography page The contents herein are entirely player made and in no way represent official World of Warcraft history or occurrences which are accurate for all realms. The characters and events listed are of an independent nature and applied for roleplaying, fictional, speculative, or opinions from a limited playerbase only. Please make sure player character articles are named properly - see the player character articles policy.

tag. The idea of having a section on the main page for "Famous People" was flawed to begin with. Fame is completely arbitrary and the section was a hotbed for nasty edits and flame wars. Now people can edit their own personal Player Character biography pages under the "Fan Fiction" category of WowWiki. This is what those pages were originally intended for anyhow. --Bobmoult 02:39, 9 February 2007 (EST)

Recent PvP Activity

Inclusion into the main article?

On Sunday April 15th 2007, in retaliation to Hord Attacks on Auberdine and Menithil, the Allience, headed by Sahn and Json, Attacked, overtook, and held the Undercitie's Throne Room. At which point, while attempting to spread throughout the trade district, forces spread to thin, the hord managed to gain the upper hand. The Allience was forced to either try and get out, or die and stay at Fole's Rest, seeing as the server was about to reset. KoalaMeatPie 01:25, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Was this not during the time period that no NPCs were spawned at all in the Eastern Kingdoms? Seems to kind of lessen such an event, regardless of who did what (IMO). --Kretol 06:28, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Crafting Site Defunct

We can probably just delete the article and any references to it in its entirety, unless someone feels that its notable enough to maintain it for history. Sefoniel 19:37, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

Ideally, we'll have it up and running again Soon(tm); perhaps we should just keep in until then, and then update the link?

       -- Kretol ^{<Talk | Cont>} 03:43, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

History section

Due to the history subpage being so small, I figured it was best to bring it back to the main page to try and fill it out a bit more. Kretol ^{<Talk | Cont>} 02:34, 9 May 2007 (EDT)