User talk:Zergiore71585

Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Starlightblunder (Talk) 01:53, 9 August 2009

Precise heights

Where do you get the figures you plugged in on such pages as Blood elf? I believe the ranges that were specified came from material such as the RPG. Thus, a range, not a specific value. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I am using a specific value for the average height, but I can put a general range based on the RPG in the precise height section. I'm essentially basing it(average height) off of what height the characters in the game appear to be, using a human male as a sort of comparison. For example, with blood elf males, I put the average height as 6'3" because it appears that they are about 3 inches taller than a human male(6'0") in game. However, I will be working on precise heights, and for that, I will be putting ranges based mostly upon the RPG. If there are any errors you find with the pages I've edited in which it says the precise heights for the races are a single value, please let me know. Thanks, Zergiore

I think my question comes from your replacing existing ranges with set values. I do not know how the original values were acquired, which makes me reluctant to see them replace by an arbitrary ("eyeballed") value. Looking back, I see you replaced the given range (for which a citation was requested) with a different range (leaving the citation request intact). Was this also guesstimated? You might talk to User:Baggins and User:Benitoperezgaldos, who have significant interest in this sort of thing, and might know of appropriate sources, references, etc. Me, I just sorta stumble along when it comes to lore things. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:27, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Changing the values from sourced material to that of "eyeballing" it from the actual game is wrong. Scale is not always accurate in WoW, and they have said that multiple times. Do not replace numbers with things like that again. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 20:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I am left, still wondering where the ORIGINAL numbers came from. They were captioned "citation needed" before Zergiore touched them originally. While eyeballing them may be the wrong method to use, how can we judge whether the original author was any more accurate with HIS contribution?

"(they have said) scale is not always accurate in WoW". Just to be clear, could you look cite one of those instances? ... which among other things, would say just which "they" you refer to. Thanks! --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:31, September 1, 2009 (UT

Ok, since clearly you don't understand what I'm getting at, please L2Average. An average is a mean, or a set value. The general height can be placed under a range, but if you put the average height as a range, it just makes it more confusing. For example, say the average male height is 5`10". That is a set value from the AVERAGE of all the statistics gathered. If you don't want me using the game, then fine, I will stop contributing what "incorrect" information I'm finding. Thanks, Zergiore

The original height min/max values are one issue: their source has never been determined. You're not at issue. Eyeballing heights is a second issue: Coobra says that "judging by in-game appearance will be inaccurate". I asked him for a reference to that; you've agreed not to continue. Done.

Substituting averages for ranges is a third issue, which I'd ignored in favor of the previous two. Your change did not mention "average" in the info box, implying "All humans are this high". My objection was not there, though... it was that your (mean) value lost information (the min/max) that for all I even now know might be accurate. ... and you sure you didn't use median, instead?

Find me something at all reliable that says how tall the various races are and I'll become interested in this again. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:40, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I didn't correct it so that it said average height as opposed to just the general height. I'm positive that for the vast majority of the races I labeled it so that it said that the average height was a single value. Since all of the races had a set range(and now have been changed to HAVE a set range for their average, which once again makes it more confusing) for their average heights, that's essentially implying that no one knows what the average height is. Sorry you've lost interest, I spent a solid amount of time on this just using the information I've gathered from playing the game, but seeing as even if I research the heights of races I'm going to assume it will end up being another waste of time. As I said I was going to work on the general height part of the races(a range), but seeing as it's clear that my contributions aren't appreciated, and that you and Coobra seem to appreciate that I'm not going to contribute anymore, I'll leave that up to someone else who doesn't have "unreliable" or "incorrect" information. Thanks, Zergiore

Look, its not that your contributes aren't wanted, but when you change cited material from official RPG books, thats where the issue comes in.

Humans

• You changed:
  • | exact = 4'10" - 6'6" (147 to 198 cm) (male), 4'5" - 6'1" (135 to 185 cm) (female)<ref>''[[World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game]]'', 174</ref>
• To:
  • | height = 6' (180 cm) (male), 5'8" (170 cm) (female)<ref>''[[World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game]]'', 174</ref>
• The average height you inserted is based on observations and you left the reference there, whereas the exact heights were known and cited from that exact page 174 from World of Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game.

Worgen

• You changed:
  • | height = 6 - 8 feet
  • | weight = 250 - 300 lbs
• To:
  • | height = Slightly taller than Humans
  • | average weight = Slighty more than Humans
• Firstly, there is no parameter named average weight so your second change didn't even show up in the infobox. Now the info wasn't cited that is true, they were correct, taken right from the Monster Guide pgs 146-147. "Slightly taller/more than humans", this requires the user to actually go look at the humans page rather than the one page they came to for information, not to mention... the exact numbers were already known and there. That changed was unneeded.

Those are just two of the examples and I hope you continue contributing, but please just be more aware of cited material. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 05:37, September 2, 2009 (UTC)